Jurek Greinert Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hi I'm going to buy Defiant 1/48. Can you advise which and why? I like the structure of the surface more in trumpeter (it is more expensive - ok) but I'm afraid of dimensional and shape errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europapete Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hi, get the Airfix. The Trumpeter has so many shape and detail issues that I would choose a Classic Airframes kit before tfat one. Also Eduard do some nice photo etch for the Defiant. Regards Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I agree with Pete. While I haven't seen the Trumpy kit plastic, sprue shots show some significant shape concerns around the turret and upper fuselage. I think the Airfix kit also provides more options for displaying the turret open and having the fuselage fairings in different positions...assuming that kind of thing floats your boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The Airfix kit has its faults but outline shape and sections aren't amongst them. It's nicely detailed, fits well and has plenty of options, ncluding AI radar antennae that aren't used in either current boxing but point to further re-boxing with different markings in the future. Sprue shots of the Trumpeter kit show serious inaccuracies from the turret aft which completely alter the look of the aeroplane and, if this had been the real thing, would have seriously impeded or even prevented operation of the turret. The Airfix kit suffers from thick trailing adages to mainplanes and ailerons, some "soft" detailing and some missing panel joints on the centre and rear fuselage, all of which are more easily dealt with than the Trumpeter kit's problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurek Greinert Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Sure, just why airfix looks like 72 on the surface? It is tragically boring and simplified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, Jurek Greinert said: Sure, just why airfix looks like 72 on the surface? It is tragically boring and simplified Perhaps...but scribing a few panel lines is a lot easier than trying to alter the height of the turret rim or change the shape of the fuselage cross-section (plus if you're making those changes to the Trumpy kit, you'll have to redo all the surface detail anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurek Greinert Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Ok, but IMHO to correct is only edge (90 degresse) between fuselage and movable spoiler. Make some panel lines etc. The height of the fuselage behind the turret is ok. It's simply correction. Something else?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 You asked for opinions and I gave you mine. I prefer the overall shape and dimensional accuracy of the Airfix kit. If panel line detail is more important to you and you don't think the Trumpy shape issues are that bad, then go with that kit. It's up to you which kit you build....but I wonder why ask for opinions if you're going to argue with the people who provide them. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhouse Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 25 minutes ago, mhaselden said: why ask for opinions if you're going to argue with the people who provide them. Because it's the internet? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurek Greinert Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 57 minutes ago, mhaselden said: You asked for opinions and I gave you mine. I prefer the overall shape and dimensional accuracy of the Airfix kit. If panel line detail is more important to you and you don't think the Trumpy shape issues are that bad, then go with that kit. It's up to you which kit you build....but I wonder why ask for opinions if you're going to argue with the people who provide them. Wait, wait.... I don't argue but I am looking for specific mistakes in TR. Not general statements but specific places to improve. You write about rescribing few lines.....sorry look on TR. Full riveting, many subtle panel details. Doing it in Airfix - many hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Jurek Greinert said: Wait, wait.... I don't argue but I am looking for specific mistakes in TR. Not general statements but specific places to improve. You write about rescribing few lines.....sorry look on TR. Full riveting, many subtle panel details. Doing it in Airfix - many hours If rivets are more important to you, then go for the Trumpeter kit. But, the interior of the Airfix kit is more accurate and more complete, the Airfix wheel wells have better and more accurate detail and Trumpeter bodged the entire fuselage from the turret aft. Trumpeter also made the little vertical windows in the glazed section aft of the pilot's canopy symmetrical and they are not supposed to be. I have the Airfix kit and bought the Trumpeter almost as a curiosity. If you sit the two next to each other, the Airfix looks right, the Trumpeter does not. But again...rivets! Edited January 30, 2018 by VMA131Marine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurek Greinert Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Well, for me details in whel wells or cockpit is less important. Probablly I use resin or PE, but rescribing and riveting is boring. From the beggining i asking about shape or dimenssions errors in Trumpeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) The Trumpy fuselage is too deep, top to bottom, in the area of the turret resulting in an odd upsweep of the turret opening front-to-rear. The whole area looks completely wrong and won't be easy to fix (IMHO). Edited January 31, 2018 by mhaselden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) And if all else fails, here's a comparison of the 2 kits (EDIT: as noted in a lower post, the accuracy problems aren't really called out): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-eHZbmNTsI Also, a Britmodeller review of the Trumpy kit here which includes the text quoted below: Unfortunately Trumpeter seem to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory again with some sloppy research. This is particularly noticeable on the fuselage. The nose appears to be the wrong shape, being too deep and not long enough. The shape of the rear fuselage is no better, being too deep and also missing the kink on the lower fuselage between just aft of the turret and the tail. The detail is nicely restrained, but many of the panel lines are spurious at best, many being moulded complete with two lines of rivets where the real aircraft only has a single line of rivets and no panel line. Note the comment about the inaccuracy of the engraved detail in the Trumpy kit. It may look pretty but it's inaccurate. Over to you for your decision... Edited January 31, 2018 by mhaselden 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Having seen Dave's review above, and having the Airfix kit I would 100% recommend the Airfix. I had a chance when at Hendon to get up close to the only surviving aircraft when they let me shoot the walkaround pictures I have here on the site. As Airfix also had access to this airframe it does in the most part conform I think. Julien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 44 minutes ago, mhaselden said: And if all else fails, here's a comparison of the 2 kits by Brett Green: That's not Brett Green in the review video. I have seen the video before and it's pretty clear the reviewer doesn't know much about the Defiant. He concludes the review by giving the Trumpeter kit the thumbs-up over the Airfix kit because the surface detail is better and doesn't say anything about the shape problems with the Trumpeter kit. I mean if you're going to do a kit review of a subject you know next to nothing about, the least you could do is look it up on Wikipedia so that you know that Mk.I and F.I are the same variants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, VMA131Marine said: That's not Brett Green in the review video. I have seen the video before and it's pretty clear the reviewer doesn't know much about the Defiant. He concludes the review by giving the Trumpeter kit the thumbs-up over the Airfix kit because the surface detail is better and doesn't say anything about the shape problems with the Trumpeter kit. I mean if you're going to do a kit review of a subject you know next to nothing about, the least you could do is look it up on Wikipedia so that you know that Mk.I and F.I are the same variants. My mistake...i was trying to listen to the video while other things were happening around me. Clearly I failed in my efforts to multi-task. I'll remove reference to Brett Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurek Greinert Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 OK, you convinced me, I'll take both sets in the store and compare. However, if the surface is s-f there is no reason for doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Once you've done so, please let us know what you think. (I don't have either, but will eventually get an Airfix one, and I have a couple of Classic Airframes lost somewhere in the stash.) bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I get the impression modellers fall broadly into two camps; 1) Wish to make an accurate representation of a real subject 2) Wish to make an attractive looking small subject Those in camp 1 value shape accuracy first and foremost, as mhaselden observed, if the shape is wrong then to correct it destroys all of the qualities that would have appealed to camp 2 anyway. E.g. the 1/48 Tamiya Spitfires - if you want a Spitfire that's shaped like a Spitfire then the Tamiya's convenient and easy parts fit and crisp detail is all worth zero because you'll saw the kit into pieces and glue it back together then rework the entire surface to fix the fundamental shape flaws. Those in camp 2 value precise fit and the aesthetic appeal of surface detail more. It is more important that the model builds up easily to something that looks good than it is important that it holds much resemblance to what it was supposed to be. I've heard it said that waterboarding in Guantanamo Bay sounds brilliant so long as you don't know what either of those things are. In a similar vein, Trumpeter models tend to look good provided you never actually check them against the original subject and that's true of their aircraft and ship kits generally. They make very nice kits of little aeroplanes and ships - they're just not scale models of what's written on the front of the box. 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Jurek Greinert said: OK, you convinced me, I'll take both sets in the store and compare. However, if the surface is s-f there is no reason for doubt I was never trying to convince you of anything Jurek. I was simply expressing my opinion about the fuselage shape issues with the Trumpy kit. Even a brief Googling for "Trumpeter 1/48 Defiant review" provides sprue shots of the fuselage, like the one below: To me, the rear of the turret opening is much too high when compared with images of the original airframe: I also don't like the fixed fairings of the Trumpy kit which don't allow for any real options regarding turret orientation. To me, the turret really is the focal point for the Defiant and so I want it to look right. Again, these are all simply my personal preferences. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Good grief! While I assumed everyone was right to find the AX kit more accurate than the TR, I hadn't realised the latter was that bad. The pictures speak for themselves to me. As someone said, a kit produced by someone with only a vague idea of what a Defiant looks like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I think the Defiant is one of those where Airfix used their LIDAR setup, insuring more accurate shapes on the external bits (not sure oif they would be able to use it in the cockpit or not). Not sure exactly how Trumpeter came up with the shapes they produced… The general consensus, and not only on Britmodeller, seems to be that the Airfix kit is the better of the two… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 the Youtube review starts out with a corker... "Airfix is a Mk.I and Trumpeter's is an F1, I have no idea if there is a difference" erm....google? The comments below the youtube link are very revealing. I think Jamie's point above is very succinct summary of the 'two types' 12 minutes ago, Don McIntyre said: Not sure exactly how Trumpeter came up with the shapes they produced… maybe they copied the old Airfix kit I'd have a search for "Boulton Paul Defiant PLans" or they copies the OLD Classic Airframes kit? http://kits.kitreview.com/defiantreviewse_1.htm oh well, if nothing else at least when other folks try to find out what's what they shouldfind this thread.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 5 hours ago, mhaselden said: I was never trying to convince you of anything Jurek. I was simply expressing my opinion about the fuselage shape issues with the Trumpy kit. Even a brief Googling for "Trumpeter 1/48 Defiant review" provides sprue shots of the fuselage, like the one below: To me, the rear of the turret opening is much too high when compared with images of the original airframe: I also don't like the fixed fairings of the Trumpy kit which don't allow for any real options regarding turret orientation. To me, the turret really is the focal point for the Defiant and so I want it to look right. Again, these are all simply my personal preferences. The fuselage cross-section from the turret aft is fairly obviously wrong too; being more oval than the real thing and lacking the straight sections at the top seen in your last photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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