Niknak Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Hi all, I am trying to identify the marking on this bf 109. So far I have found out the following... It is black 11+- of 5 jg27 libya /Egypt 1942 abandoned during jg 27 retreat. As the 2nd group bar is over the white fusalarge band it is posable it is a replacement aircraft. It looks like the pilots kills have been cut from the rudder as the hole a clean cut along the frame. I would like to find out if posible the number of kills removed from the rudder, who flew it and if it had the jg 27 crest or/ and the 2/jg27 crest and the aircraft type f or g, and any other information. Thank you for help. nik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 If you look at the bottom of the windscreen, the triangular panel meeting with the fuselage is solid as opposed to transparent. That tells you whether it is an F or a G. It's a G. Unless someone has overpainted it? The tailwheel is a distinguishing feature for some variants, but possibly not for these two. The top of the swastika seems to be missing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 It looks like a G-2 to me. Also note the replacement wing. Jens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niknak Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Thank you both, but the triangle windows were sometimes over panted on the f-4s I have photos of f-4 s of jg 53 with the triangle windows painted over based in the med, yip the top of the fin is missing as well,the wing looks like it's off a earlier aircraft. Edited January 26, 2018 by Niknak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonbraun Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 In the photo posted the trailing edge of the upper radiator flap appears to be the two piece affair consistent with the Bf 109 F. On the G series the upper flap is a single piece... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 The photo looks to be a scan from the Jagdwaffe (Luftwaffe Colours Volume 4 Section 2) series of books published back in 2003. Back then, little info provided, and don't know if anything more has been unearthed since then. The Gruppen bar appears to be red, compared to the black '11' individual aircraft number. Not sure there was ever a JG 27 emblem, though each Gruppen had their own - II /JG 27 being the dancing bear. Some Staffel also had their own emblems as well. Ignore the aircraft type, but here are the emblems for 5./JG 27 The wing definitely looks to be a replacement because of the different style balkenkreuz. Only going by artwork and those crosses, it could be a G airframe with an F starboard wing replacement - which ties in with Vonbraun's study of the radiator flaps posted above? regards, Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niknak Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 hour ago, JackG said: The photo looks to be a scan from the Jagdwaffe (Luftwaffe Colours Volume 4 Section 2) series of books published back in 2003. Back then, little info provided, and don't know if anything more has been unearthed since then. The Gruppen bar appears to be red, compared to the black '11' individual aircraft number. Not sure there was ever a JG 27 emblem, though each Gruppen had their own - II /JG 27 being the dancing bear. Some Staffel also had their own emblems as well. Ignore the aircraft type, but here are the emblems for 5./JG 27 The wing definitely looks to be a replacement because of the different style balkenkreuz. Only going by artwork and those crosses, it could be a G airframe with an F starboard wing replacement - which ties in with Vonbraun's study of the radiator flaps posted above? regards, Jack Thanks Jackg, yip the photo is in that book it is also in osprey s aircraft of the aces no 2, bf 109 aces of North Africa and the Mediterranean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touvdal Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 The photo is also in "Die Jagdfliegerverbande der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 8/I" page 288. Here it is id. as a F-4 Trop. Looking at the picture in this book I can not see any fuelhatch at the top of fuselage, so no G. but then not sharpest photo. Ref. to original photo is given as IWM. so maybe you can find something there. Cheers Jes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Top of the fin cut off or angled rudder throwing a shadow which obscures the fin top & top of swastika.? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 7 hours ago, Vonbraun said: In the photo posted the trailing edge of the upper radiator flap appears to be the two piece affair consistent with the Bf 109 F. On the G series the upper flap is a single piece... I’m obviously blind, I can’t see the difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Nichols Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, SimonT said: I’m obviously blind, I can’t see the difference! https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/meredith-effect-and-the-p-51.16845/#post-454900 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonbraun Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Look at the trailing edge of the upper radiator flap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Thank you both! Right, so we’re talking about the section under-connected to the flap. This would be missing off the G and would just be the upper part of the flap? Edited January 27, 2018 by SimonT Forgot to add thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonbraun Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, SimonT said: Thank you both! Right, so we’re talking about the section under-connected to the flap. This would be missing off the G and would just be the upper part of the flap? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) It is the exit of a duct designed to separate the low-energy boundary layer flow from the more effective flow going through the radiator. It was apparently abandoned to save production time/cost/materials, something which does not seem to have had significant ill effect. The Spitfire has been criticised for lacking such a device. Edited January 27, 2018 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Understood, thanks all for the explanations, consider me educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 So the bit arrowed that looks like a fat trailing edge is in fact a slot/outlet to a duct? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niknak Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Touvdal said: The photo is also in "Die Jagdfliegerverbande der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 8/I" page 288. Here it is id. as a F-4 Trop. Looking at the picture in this book I can not see any fuelhatch at the top of fuselage, so no G. but then not sharpest photo. Ref. to original photo is given as IWM. so maybe you can find something there. Cheers Jes Thank you touvdal, do you know how to contact iwm? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touvdal Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Niknak said: Thank you touvdal, do you know how to contact iwm? Nick They have many of there photos online, so search for it https://www.iwm.org.uk/ cheers Jes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonbraun Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 8 hours ago, stevehnz said: So the bit arrowed that looks like a fat trailing edge is in fact a slot/outlet to a duct? Steve. Exactly. The Monogram Close Up book on the Bf 109 F gives a detailed explanation with accompanying drawings. Monogram Bf 109 F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks, that is a great way to explain it, some clever (too clever?) engineering involved. I can't see me trying to model that in 1/72 though, I think it'll get a fat trailing edge with a black accent. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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