Jump to content

Help with identifying this Bf 109 f-4? /G-2?


Niknak

Recommended Posts

2018-01-26_07-44-17

Hi all, I am trying to identify the marking on this bf 109. So far I have found out the following... It is black 11+- of 5 jg27 libya /Egypt 1942 abandoned during jg 27 retreat. As the 2nd group bar is over the white fusalarge band it is posable it is a replacement aircraft. It looks like the pilots kills have been cut from the rudder as the hole a clean cut along the frame. I would like to find out if posible the number of kills removed from the rudder, who flew it and if it had the jg 27 crest or/ and the 2/jg27 crest and the aircraft type f or g,  and any other information.  Thank you for help. nik

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you look at the bottom of the windscreen, the triangular panel meeting with the fuselage is solid as opposed to transparent.  That tells you whether it is an F or a G.  It's a G.  Unless someone has overpainted it?

 

The tailwheel is a distinguishing feature for some variants, but possibly not for these two.

 

The top of the swastika seems to be missing.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you both,  but the triangle windows were sometimes over panted on the f-4s I have photos of f-4 s of jg 53 with the triangle windows painted over based in the med, yip the top of the fin is missing as well,the wing looks like it's off a earlier aircraft. 

2018-01-26_10-54-09

 

Edited by Niknak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The photo looks to be a scan from the Jagdwaffe (Luftwaffe Colours  Volume 4 Section 2) series of books published back in 2003.  Back then, little info provided, and don't know if anything more has been unearthed since then.

 

The Gruppen bar appears to be red, compared to the black '11' individual aircraft number.  Not sure there was ever a JG 27 emblem, though each Gruppen had their own - II /JG 27 being the dancing bear.   Some Staffel also had their own emblems as well.

Ignore the aircraft type, but here are the emblems for 5./JG 27

 

2c496d92d6484f1d4432b30eba7d1088--artwor

 

The wing definitely looks to be a replacement because of the different style balkenkreuz.   Only going by artwork and those crosses, it could be a G airframe with an F starboard wing replacement - which ties in with Vonbraun's study of the radiator flaps posted above?

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JackG said:

The photo looks to be a scan from the Jagdwaffe (Luftwaffe Colours  Volume 4 Section 2) series of books published back in 2003.  Back then, little info provided, and don't know if anything more has been unearthed since then.

 

The Gruppen bar appears to be red, compared to the black '11' individual aircraft number.  Not sure there was ever a JG 27 emblem, though each Gruppen had their own - II /JG 27 being the dancing bear.   Some Staffel also had their own emblems as well.

Ignore the aircraft type, but here are the emblems for 5./JG 27

 

2c496d92d6484f1d4432b30eba7d1088--artwor

 

The wing definitely looks to be a replacement because of the different style balkenkreuz.   Only going by artwork and those crosses, it could be a G airframe with an F starboard wing replacement - which ties in with Vonbraun's study of the radiator flaps posted above?

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

Thanks Jackg, yip the photo is in that book it is also in osprey s aircraft of the aces no 2, bf 109 aces of North Africa and the Mediterranean 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The photo is also in "Die Jagdfliegerverbande der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 8/I" page 288.

Here it is id. as a F-4 Trop. 

Looking at the picture in this book I can not see any fuelhatch at the top of fuselage, so no G. but then not sharpest photo.

Ref. to original photo is given as IWM. so maybe you can find something there.

 

Cheers

Jes

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Vonbraun said:

In the photo posted the trailing edge of the upper radiator flap appears to be the two piece affair consistent with the Bf 109 F.  

39020607945_828f2846f8_o.jpg

 

On the G series the upper flap is a single piece...

 

25047802707_59c09d597f_o.jpg

 

 

I’m obviously blind, I can’t see the difference!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you both! Right, so we’re talking about the section under-connected to the flap. This would be missing off the G and would just be the upper part of the flap?

Edited by SimonT
Forgot to add thanks!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is the exit of a duct designed to separate the low-energy boundary layer flow from the more effective flow going through the radiator.  It was apparently abandoned to save production time/cost/materials, something which does not seem to have had significant ill effect.  The Spitfire has been criticised for lacking such a device.

Edited by Graham Boak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Touvdal said:

The photo is also in "Die Jagdfliegerverbande der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 8/I" page 288.

Here it is id. as a F-4 Trop. 

Looking at the picture in this book I can not see any fuelhatch at the top of fuselage, so no G. but then not sharpest photo.

Ref. to original photo is given as IWM. so maybe you can find something there.

 

Cheers

Jes

Thank you touvdal, do you know how to contact iwm? Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...