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1/48th Hurricane decals


ArtickWarspite

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Hi everyone,

 

I'm currently building a couple of Airfix 1/48th scale Mk1 Hurricanes from the Battle of Britain. (249 squadron to be exact. GN-H and GN-L)

 

From the research I have done, it would appear that these 249 squadron Hurricanes had very large squadron codes on the fuselage. 

 

I've been looking around for aftermarket RAF decals from that period, and the largest ones I can find are 30 inch letters painted in the "sky" colour. 

 

I think I need the grey letters in a 36 inch size possibly larger. The reference photos suggest the letters were tall enough to touch the wing root and almost touch the canopy. 

 

Can anyone help point me in the right direction please? This is proving to be a harder project that anticipated...

 

 

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Hi AW.

One avenue you might explore is to have custom masks made. The one I'm aware of is Mal's Miracle Masks. I believe he's located somewhere in Cornwall. He does very nice work. I believe he can do the artwork design, or you can produce it yourself and have him cut the masks.

At his web page,

http://www.freewebs.com/miraclemasks/

He furnishes an email address for inquiries:

[email protected]

 

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I think you need to check your math!

 

Still, on a right track, perhaps- you need letters that are 3/4" tall; 24" 1/32 letters would match, if there is such a thing.  Of course, then you have to hope that the shapes are about right...

 

Edit: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X32046

Edited by gingerbob
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5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

I think you need to check your math!

 

Still, on a right track, perhaps- you need letters that are 3/4" tall; 24" 1/32 letters would match, if there is such a thing.  Of course, then you have to hope that the shapes are about right...

 

Edit: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X32046

 

well,  as it happens, the 249 codes are pretty chunky...

6897503193_bef8a337d4_z.jpg

 

X32046.jpg?t=

 

  24 inch at 1/32 , ok,    1/32nd is 3/8th inch too foot,  so 24 inch is 6/8th's, or 3/4 inch, 3/4 inch in 1/48th is 3ft, or 36 inch.

the roundel above is 35 inch, and each band of the roundel is 5 inch, and the serial is 8 inch high, which gives size reference points.

the codes letter should have a 6 inch stroke width, and the 'C'  looks to be a little wider then the yellow ring,  so 6 inch look right.

 

 

I'd suggest rescaling the decal image to actual size, and then doing a print out and cutting out the letters to see how the look on the actual fuselage, this would also allow you to check the width of the letter stroke.

 

good lateral thinking by @gingerbob  I'd not thought of checking the 32nd scale codes...

 

Articks original query  and my response  is here BTW

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235027581-airfix-148-hurricane/&do=findComment&comment=2915787

 

 

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5 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

well,  as it happens, the 249 codes are pretty chunky...

6897503193_bef8a337d4_z.jpg

 

X32046.jpg?t=

 

  24 inch at 1/32 , ok,    1/32nd is 3/8th inch too foot,  so 24 inch is 6/8th's, or 3/4 inch, 3/4 inch in 1/48th is 3ft, or 36 inch.

the roundel above is 35 inch, and each band of the roundel is 5 inch, and the serial is 8 inch high, which gives size reference points.

the codes letter should have a 6 inch stroke width, and the 'C'  looks to be a little wider then the yellow ring,  so 6 inch look right.

 

 

I'd suggest rescaling the decal image to actual size, and then doing a print out and cutting out the letters to see how the look on the actual fuselage, this would also allow you to check the width of the letter stroke.

 

good lateral thinking by @gingerbob  I'd not thought of checking the 32nd scale codes...

 

Articks original query  and my response  is here BTW

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235027581-airfix-148-hurricane/&do=findComment&comment=2915787

 

 

Great, thank you for all of your help everyone. You've been a great help. 

 

I'll print off a test of this decal sheet with the letters at 3/4 an inch high- which in my language is 19.05 millimetres and will do a test fit. If it fits then I'll go ahead and order the decals. 

Thanks again, it's greatly appreciated!

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Hi ArtickW.

To my eye the stroke width of the letters on the decal sheet Troy posted are significantly narrower than that of the numbers in the photograph. I still think custom masks are a better way to get a more accurate representation. If you decide to go that route and need help with the vector drawing artwork, let me know. pnmoss [at] comcast [dot] net

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2 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Hi ArtickW.

To my eye the stroke width of the letters on the decal sheet Troy posted are significantly narrower than that of the numbers in the photograph. I still think custom masks are a better way to get a more accurate representation. If you decide to go that route and need help with the vector drawing artwork, let me know. pnmoss [at] comcast [dot] net

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I've printed out a couple of letters at the specified size and will test fit them and see how they go. If they're slightly thinner then I won't mind very much, but if it is significant, then I'll be in touch. 

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On 1/16/2018 at 3:25 AM, Troy Smith said:

I'd suggest rescaling the decal image to actual size, and then doing a print out and cutting out the letters to see how the look on the actual fuselage, this would also allow you to check the width of the letter stroke.

Tried this last night, and yes, they look so much better than the 30 inch ones. This is a much better fit. 

 

The height is perfect. The top of the GN codes fit just below the slid back canopy hood and the bottom just touches the wing root join. The width looks good too, so I'll go ahead and order these X32046 decals. 

 

Thanks for your help everyone, it's greatly appreciated. :)

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The great photo Troy posted above has provided me with a perfect subject for my future build of the Airfix Mk. I, and one of my modeling friends has recently acquired a plotter/cutter, so I'm going to try my hand at making custom masks for the codes. Are there other photos of 249 Sqn. planes that show what style of fin flash they wore?

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10 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Are there other photos of 249 Sqn. planes that show what style of fin flash they wore?

 

Hurricanes_249_Sq_GN_C_GN_A_0187.png

 

Possibly the same GN-C,   it's a pretty grotty image, but I'd suggest the front edge of fin red and white/blue stripe,  but could just be  3 stripes. 

 

 

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Troy, thanks for the photo and the link to the other thread, which has a lot of good stuff in it. From a quick perusal, plus what you said in your last post, it looks as though I won't be too far off if I go with the fin flash with the red filling the whole space to the front edge of the fin, and with GN-C on the starboard side.

 

One other question if I may (although the answer may be found with a more careful reading of the other thread): Would P3870 have been in service during the time that lower surface roundels were removed, or is it more likely that they were there at the time the portside photo was taken?

 

Many thanks,

Pip

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1 hour ago, Seawinder said:

although the answer may be found with a more careful reading of the other thread): Would P3870 have been in service during the time that lower surface roundels were removed,

IIRC,  249 got ex 56 Sq Hurricane in late august  1940,  underwing roundels were reintroduced 1st August,

see top right

 

 

Hawker%20Hurricane%20Camo%20&%20Marks_Pa

 

one suggestion for the smaller roundels was unit level application, and it was easier to do at the tips,IIRC.

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6 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Are you in agreement about the fin flash and starboard codes placement?

Hi  Pip

 

For GN-C P3870 I'd go for the red fin front,    the code order was debated in one   of  the links,   here

 

with  the starboard side reading A-GN.    Mention is made of a photo  of Tom Neil,     which I have not seen

this is linked,   in the above but to save  it geting lost

 https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?90512-F-Lt-James-Nicolson-VC

There is an earlier Hurricane  with GN behind the roundel on the starboard side.

 

So... I don't know.  

 

For certainty  of a a BoB Hurricane scheme,

 I can think of with multiple images of both sides are 85 Sq VY-R in July 1940,  with a frontal shot and one in flight,  VY-Q with the white spinner again July 1940,   and 87 Sq Gleed's LK-A.

Maybe one  of the 32 Sq planes is also as well documented,   from  the famous film unit stills,   and maybe some of the film of 56 Sq on Pathe,   as there is footage of take off and landing.

There are shots of different planes from the same squadron at the same time,   but both sides of the same plane is a rarity :(

 

HTH

T

 

 

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10 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Hmm, quoting from your words posted to the linked thread in your last post,

"From the one photo of the starboard side of a 249 Sq Hurricane in July 1940, the codes read GN-H."

 

Hi Pip

yes, there is a photo of GN- ?  on a low loader,  with the code letters behnd the roundel on the starboard side, in a photo dated July 1940,  there is then evidence mentioned that a September 1940 photo of Tom  Neil (and others later on) of the code letters in front of the roundel.

These I have not seen.

 

So....  arguments in for either are possible,  but this is as much as I know now. 

 

P3870 in the Mason Hurricane book is listed as going to 56 Sq in June 1940,  no mention of being with 249 Sq.

From the 3rd Hawker built batch.

 

cheers

T

 

 

 

 

 

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The photo of GN-C with the pilot is George Barclay and this aircraft (P3870) was his regular mount during August and September. Humphrey Wynn as editor in Barclay's diaries (1994 edition) states that the photo was taken at Church Fenton so this would be late August. At this stage 249 carried the GN squadron code forward of the roundel on the starboard side as can be evidenced in photos from August and September, eg there are 3 photographs in Neil's "A Fighter in My Sights" (2001) showing this.

 

HTH,

 

Tim

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3 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Troy's comment made me search, and I found a photo of Neil bent over (strapping up parachute?) with the GN forward.  (I searched "Tom Neil 249" and had to scroll a bit before I spotted it).

 

bob

cheers bob

pinterest strikes again

001d96b7c66ffa777e990d4b48ce5e50.jpg

is that a DH prop?

 

 

 

and....

Palliser-1-opt.jpg

from

http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Palliser.htm

Quote

George Charles Calder Palliser was born in West Hartlepool on 11th January 1919 and educated at Brougham School there and later a Technical School. He joined the RAFVR in June 1939 as an Airman u/t Pilot and did some flying at 32 E&RFTS before being called to full-time service at the outbreak of war. Palliser was posted to 3 ITW Hastings, moved to 11 EFTS Perth on 5th December and went to 6 FTS, Little Rissington in April 1940. After converting to Hurricanes at 6 OTU Sutton Bridge in July, Palliser joined 17 Squadron at Debden on 3rd August. He moved to 43 Squadron at Tangmere on the 18th and joined 249 Squadron at North Weald on 14th September.

 

note splodge under canopy of GN-C.....

 

Hurricanes_249_Sq_GN_C_GN_A_0187.png

 

Just an observation.... oh for more photos!
 

 

 

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Yes, I'm a bit confused about the propellers, at least the one on GN-C (P3870). In the clear port-side photo above (which incidentally doesn't have the splodge), the blades look to be Rotol (sharp indentation toward the hub), but the spinner isn't visible. In the fuzzy in-flight photo, the spinner appears more pointy: would that suggest a DH prop, or is it the later Rotol spinner, or have I got it all wrong?

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