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"Bar rigging" (is that the right term) 1930's biplanes


MeneMene

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What's the best way to recreate interwar rigging, like the type you see on the Swordfish, where the rigging isn't cables so much as it is metal bars under tension? Tamiya provides a photoetch set for this for it's swordfish, but that's not available for every kit. I'm working on an Avia B.534, and it too has this thick "bar" rigging as opposed to just cables.

 

See this image for reference

 

img_3170.jpg[/img]

 

 

Thanks

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WNW suggests Prym for their kits with RAF flat rigging .

What you are looking for is the same thing. 

The p/e flat rigging available is troublesome , unworkable and I have not seen anyone have it work out.

I tried for 3 weeks to rig 2 bays and this is what I saw every morning after letting it set over night:

IMG_4529.jpg

IMG_4526.jpg

Myself and others in my IPMS crew spent hundreds of dollars on this unproven stuff, I failed to make it work despite weeks of effort and frustration , most of it in front of the boys at meetings. Blobs of crusted cyano from repeated regluings and the realization that IT DOES NOT WORK , resulted in the model being stripped of the junk and rigged in 2 days with Prym.

I have used the p/e for short runs on the tail and such , and I have seen it used on monoplanes like the Peashooter , but it has to have a very strong bay to work out. I think the differences in the contraction and expansion of the different materials means it will never work.

Use the Prym , be happy.

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11 minutes ago, krow113 said:

WNW suggests Prym for their kits with RAF flat rigging .

What you are looking for is the same thing. 

The p/e flat rigging available is troublesome , unworkable and I have not seen anyone have it work out.

 

Would the prym wire be appropriate for 1/48 scale? Most of the references for it that I've seen are 1/32 builds

 

I got the tamiya photoetch stuff to work on the Swordfish, but I agree that approach is generally ineffective.

Edited by MeneMene
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9 minutes ago, MeneMene said:

 

Would the prym wire be appropriate for 1/48 scale? Most of the references for it that I've seen are 1/32 builds

 

I got the tamiya photoetch stuff to work on the Swordfish, but I agree that approach is generally ineffective.

Not sure if its good for 1/48 , I think it would be too large and look ungainly. It looks ok in 1/32:

IMG_4830.jpg

Pretty sure most of the 1/48ers just use elastic line of some sort , not worrying too much if it has the flat rigging profile.

 

This is also not the first thread of this type. Searching the forum will result in a lot more input.

Good luck!

Edited by krow113
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Just now, krow113 said:

Pretty sure most of the 1/48ers just use elastic line of some sort , not worrying too much if it has the flat rigging profile.

Ok thanks. On that note, I think the Avia rigging isn't quite the same as RAF flat rigging, it looks more like a rod. I still think regular elastic line would be too fine for it, but I can try

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5 hours ago, MeneMene said:

What's the best way to recreate interwar rigging, like the type you see on the Swordfish, where the rigging isn't cables so much as it is metal bars under tension? Tamiya provides a photoetch set for this for it's swordfish, but that's not available for every kit. I'm working on an Avia B.534, and it too has this thick "bar" rigging as opposed to just cables.

 

See this image for reference

 

img_3170.jpg[/img]

 

 

Thanks

You might try a dental supply store, dental lab, or a local dentist to obtain stainless wire- it is used by  orthodontists, and comes in varying diameters, from very fine flexible wire used to secure devices to bands on teeth, to larger rigid diameters used to make various appliances. I used it on my 1/72  Siskin for the wing rigging wires and it worked very well and was in scale. There used to be a firm called Small Parts that carried wire, tubing, and other materials suitable  for model builders, but  I don't know if they are still in business. I'm sure others will be able to help you more than I.

Mike

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But that is a preserved aircraft; how accurate is it? A very nicely preserved one, I might add, but it might even be a replica? The stainless steel wire sounds like a good idea - is it rigid enough to just pop into pre-drilled holes? That's the idea I have for rigging, as every other method I've tried or heard about just doesn't work well or easily for me.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/13/2018 at 1:00 PM, Artie said:

My favourite method for rigging 1/48 interwar biplanes, comes from the rock'n roll scene....:D

I use Fender steel electric guitar string, 0.08....


The Pre-CBS 008 top E strings were better (Sorry, thread drift guitarry joke)

 

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  • 4 months later...

  hi ALL,

 

                    I recently bought (2) sets of  STARFIGHTER E Z RIGGING #PE-01 for a pair of P12E/F4B-4 Models that I am buildin'

             but I discovered when working on the MONOGRAM F4B-4 and attemptin' to  Super Glue on the Upper Wing it was right where there were large Injection Pin marks of where I had filled with a big blob of Mr. Surfacer..... hhhhhhrrrrr!

         The MATCHBOX P12E ?  NO PROBS

           Also that the Brace leans forward to the Location Point on the Fuselage not directly to the Fuselage as the Photo Etch Part is cut to be    hhhhhhrrrr2 !

           ....seems a bit wide and is not an Aerofoil Section

        Oh well ....... I have lots of "Seat Belt " Etch in stock now !

       .......  goin' back Armature Wire as I had previosly planned.

 

                                                                                                         cheery "modellin' " mumbas !

 

                                                                                                                                Geoff

 

                                                                                                                                    F.T.G. 3156

            

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Let say that EZ fine cable has 0,4 mm X 0.1 mm section. In 1/72/ In reality it makes ~3 cm per  0.7 cm . Is it size of this cable or a wire?

Regards

J-W

 

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If you take a length of plastruct flat plastic strip, heat it, and stretch it, like you would sprue, it will have a flat cross section; the trick being practicing to get a uniform width. For 1/72 scale it is pretty easy to get sections long enough to span the upper and lower wings- in 1/48 it might be harder to do. I also had a colleague who taped brass wire on a mat under tension and filed a flat on it with a file, which IIRC he used for a Williams Brothers Travel Aire Mystery Ship monoplane- it looked great!

Mike

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  • 1 month later...

I'm going to be attempting the Accurate Miniatures 1/48 F3F-2 kit which comes with P/E rigging. I have read a couple of build reviews of the kit and they make it sound easy and effective to use but I'm a bit apprehensive. I think I might use guitar strings instead as I have plenty here anyway, 0.09's though, not those extra super light ones.

 

Duncan B

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On 22/07/2018 at 15:03, JWM said:

Let say that EZ fine cable has 0,4 mm X 0.1 mm section. In 1/72/ In reality it makes ~3 cm per  0.7 cm . Is it size of this cable or a wire?

Regards

J-W

 

On the P-26 for instance the wire size was as follows:  Flying wires (those carrying the weight of the fuselage when aloft) between wheel spads and front underwing = .5 in, rear underwing = .375 in.  Landing wires (carrying the weight of the wings on the ground) over wing = .375 in.

A fair size in 1/48 would be 0.25 mm and 0.2 mm, and in 1/72 around 0.15 mm.

This may serve as an idea of the wires to be used.  I think guitar strings are a great idea offering any thickness in this range.

I use Prym and also Griffin jewellery wire.  The latter are of steel with a thin coat of plastic that makes secure attachment with super glue easy, even when stretched.

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  • 1 month later...

The only time that one would notice the thin edge of a flat RAF wire type of rigging is to bend down at model level.

When using photos for reference of a tail sitting biplane, the camera is at human eye level so you are seeing a broader aspect of the wires.  For the most time the model is at a lower level, so a round wire looks just as good. 

 

In 1;48, find that the finest Florists soft Iron wire is easy to work with and glues well. and I've rigged a number of my Moths this way. I recently tried the Albion  Stainless wire and I was very pleased with that also. 

I was given rolls of fine stainless steel piano wire by Ray Rimmell some years ago and because it was rolled it is impossible to work with. I've tried heating under tension to no avail. Slight over temp with a flame torch and it pops like a light bulb.

 

The correct term for streamlined rigging wire according to my 1917 rigging handbook is RAF-Wire. It was developed by the Royal Aircraft Factory  (Farnborough) hence the RAF,  not the Royal Air Force which wasn't in existence at the time.  It was then adopted world wide.  Cable as used by such as the SPAD is multi strand wire. RAF-Wire is a Die drawn solid wire.

John

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