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Fuad

1/72 PZL.23 B Karas, IBG models

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8 hours ago, Fuad said:

I use this type a lot of photos.

OK, you are right :).I've seen such photos before:

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania karaś pzl

Podobny obraz

Znalezione obrazy dla zapytania karaś pzl

 

 

Regards

jwm

 

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On 11/01/2018 at 7:22 PM, Fuad said:

I will definitely have this in mind next time. But I'm FUad, not FAud :D.

Oops.  My error, I apologise Fuad.  I shan't make that mistake again!

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The Karas you done, wasn't flow in September 1939, so the weathering is bit too much but it is your model and it is very good!

Only wracks (shot down or other wise destroyed) shown hard weathering. 

The 12 squadron changed the number and become the PZL P.37 Los beginning of 1939.

 

Any how the model is TOP!!!

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I'm afraid you did a lot o unnecessary work with rescribing panel lines. Simply you got wrong drawings, and IBG did it right.

Otherwise fine paintwork.

uTG1bkY.jpg

Edited by piotr dmitruk

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1 hour ago, piotr dmitruk said:

I'm afraid you did a lot o unnecessary work with rescribing panel lines. Simply you got wrong drawings, and IBG did it right.

Otherwise fine paintwork.

I used a lot of drawings that are on the network. They did not have these panels. I did not find any drawings confirming these panels. At the same time, I tortured all my colleagues. No one told me where these panels came from(((. And the photos do not show the joints of these panels. Maybe the joints are putty in the factory?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Fuad said:

At the same time, I tortured all my colleagues. No one told me where these panels came from(((.

 

 

:lol:

I have to salute your commitment to modelling accuracy and also your colleagues`s bravery in persisting to keep things to themselves despite the odds!

 

Ok, so the IBG kit`s panels might be right(ish) after all?

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6 minutes ago, Fin said:

:lol:

I have to salute your commitment to modelling accuracy and also your colleagues`s bravery in persisting to keep things to themselves despite the odds!

 

Ok, so the IBG kit`s panels might be right(ish) after all?

I used materials from two books on this Karas. In book is no there a picture of individual panels. What was left for me to think? That the author (Tomasz J. Kopanski - a Pole) was badly wrong? Maybe he also has a reason to print such drawings.

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2 minutes ago, Fuad said:

I used materials from two books on this Karas. In book is no there a picture of individual panels. What was left for me to think? That the author (Tomasz J. Kopanski - a Pole) was badly wrong? Maybe he also has a reason to print such drawings.

I was just pocking fun at the "torture" your colleagues bit. :D I`m well aware that you`re a very thorough modeller, hence the spectacular results. At the same time, if there is any school of thought that makes the original panels acceptable I`m all in for it purely because it makes it easier for me to make the model given my lack of experience with redrawing panel lines (among other things).

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7 minutes ago, Fin said:

I was just pocking fun at the "torture" your colleagues bit. :D I`m well aware that you`re a very thorough modeller, hence the spectacular results. At the same time, if there is any school of thought that makes the original panels acceptable I`m all in for it purely because it makes it easier for me to make the model given my lack of experience with redrawing panel lines (among other things).

Manufacturers of models do not always follow the technical base clearly. Many of them simply make model-toys "on motives". Therefore, many modelers look for drawings and compare models with them. This Piotr Dmitruk apparently relates to the manufacturer). He has only one message, and it's made especially for me :D . I'm flattered B).

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The model matches 100% the plans in MMP's Scale Plans No 4 PZL.23 Karaś, PZL.42/PZL.43 PZL.46 Sum. So it is almost certain that IBG used those plans. The same plans are also found in TBIU Samoloty bombowe PZL.23 Kara, 42 i 43 published by Stratus, the parent of MMP. There are some differences with the plans in Monografie Lotnicze 23 P.23 Karaś but mostly they agree. Some plans do not show panel lines, just rows of rivets. So you could fill in the panel lines and claim its is closer to the real life appearance of the machine.

 

Despite the problems with its shape, the wings of the Heller kit are almost identical in size and shape with the IBG wings. Only in the area of the wing roots is there a slight difference. Panel lines are raised but for the most part in the same place as those on the IBG wing. Internal details are almost non-existent in the Heller kit and what there is is best described as fiction. This can be addressed with PE sets by Part or Eduard (maybe no longer available).

 

The internals in the IBG kit are accurate if somewhat simplified and a little chunky. There are of course limitations as to what is possible with plastic. Yahu have a replacement instrument panel and Part have now issued a PE set specifically for the IBG model (you could use a lot of the Heller PE set as most of it fits quite well). The PE set is almost entirely for the interior but includes an oil collector with fins, oil collector ring, and gunsight. You need to incorporate some of the kit parts but you have to work out for yourself which bits to use as the instructions are not very informative in this respect. Pmask have canopy and wheel masks that are not very expensive.

 

Oh well, soon there will be a PZL P.37 Łoś to complain about.

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I got all polish books and publications about Karaś. There is three biggest books about topic: 1995 Monografie Lotnicze 23 by Tomasz J. Kopański and Krzysztof Sikora, 2004 Stratus book by Tomasz J. Kopański, and 2013 Polish Wings nr 17 by ......Tomasz J. Kopański. Even in former two books plans are different. But the heck with the drawings. There are good  photographs, that show panel lines and they match factory pictures.

d6ZtY2L.jpg

 

 

bbkwNcc.jpg

 

I'm not related with IBG, I don"t even know anybody from this factory. Just saw this model in polish forum http://www.pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=7059&start=1359

went to Britmodeller and saw something, that IMHO needs correction, to spare someones torment.

Maybe is better to ask about polish aircraft on polish forums?

HTH

Piotr

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4 hours ago, piotr dmitruk said:

I got all polish books and publications about Karaś. There is three biggest books about topic: 1995 Monografie Lotnicze 23 by Tomasz J. Kopański and Krzysztof Sikora, 2004 Stratus book by Tomasz J. Kopański, and 2013 Polish Wings nr 17 by ......Tomasz J. Kopański. Even in former two books plans are different. But the heck with the drawings. There are good  photographs, that show panel lines and they match factory pictures.

 

Maybe is better to ask about polish aircraft on polish forums?

HTH

Piotr

OK. So any modeler has access to a maximum of three books about PZL.23 Karas. And in two, most accessible of them, there are no images of separated panels.

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The pictures attached above are scans from Monografie Lotnicze and Polish Wings (for educational purposes only, of course).

September 39 aircraft are somewhat iconic in Poland. There was a huge flamewar in polish modelling forums , when previous IBG product- RWD-8, was released.

There was mistake in this kit- one rib in the wing was ommited. Some said it was only minor mistake, for others it was sacrilege! As a result two manufacturers released corrected wings. Similar discussion took place with Azur PZL P-11c. I'm quite convinced, that guys from IBG watched molding mastere several times to avoid such poo-poostorm.

My advice- feel free to ask in polish forums about polish aircraft. 

I'm curious, if you are planning to build PZL-37 Łoś (does not matter, from IBG, or Fly). I'd like to see your stunning work.

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