Liberator to Privateer - anyone done a conversion?

[bootneck]

I have an interest in building some firebomber aircraft in 1:144 scale and would like to convert a B-24 Liberator to a PB4Y-2 Privateer.  I know it will be a tough assignment, with quite a bit of scratchbuilding, but has anyone already done such a thing; in any scale?  Are there any build or conversion links, plans or guidelines etc., such as information on where to cut, shape and join items to make a decent model?  My build will only be to 1:144 scale so it doesn't have to be super-detailed.

 

Although the aircraft concerned are WW2 airframes, hence why I am posting here, I would like to make a firebomber Privateer similar to the one below

 

The basic shape and work would be similar to its wartime configuration but with glazing closed over etc., plus the water-tank bulge underneath.

 

I would be grateful to hear from anyone with any information, advice or help on this please.

 

Mike

[gingerbob]

Well, Koster did a conversion (vac) for 1/48.  A bit of searching will no doubt reveal images of what was included in that set, to give you an idea of what you'd have to do.  Of course, the far easier solution would be to find a 1/144 conversion or kit, but I don't know anything about that.

 

bob

[Charlie Hugo]

New Nose, New tail, chnage engine cowlings orientation

 

Might be easier to find this

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/165366-cobra-company-le-02-pb4y-2-privateer

[Brad]

Probably just easier to find the Matchbox 1/72 kit. Revell reissued it a few years ago too.

[viscount806x]

6 minutes ago, Brad said:

Probably just easier to find the Matchbox 1/72 kit. Revell reissued it a few years ago too.

One here:

https://www.kitsforcash.com/search.slr

[bootneck]

34 minutes ago, Charlie Hugo said:

New Nose, New tail, chnage engine cowlings orientation

 

Might be easier to find this

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/165366-cobra-company-le-02-pb4y-2-privateer

I would agree but the kit is out of production and I understand that the owner has retired.  I have looked for a second-hand one but haven't found anything, especially something affordable.  It's a good job that I like a challenge!

 

14 minutes ago, Brad said:

Probably just easier to find the Matchbox 1/72 kit. Revell reissued it a few years ago too.

Thanks Brad but a 1:72 kit is not what I want; mainly as I have a 1:144 scale liberator which is planned for conversion, rather than buy a 1:72 kit.

8 minutes ago, viscount806x said:

One here:

https://www.kitsforcash.com/search.slr

Nothing showing, however I am assuming this is for a 1:72 kit, which is not  what I am looking for.

 

cheers

 

Mike

[janneman36]

10 minutes ago, bootneck said:

I would agree but the kit is out of production and I understand that the owner has retired.  I have looked for a second-hand one but haven't found anything, especially something affordable.  It's a good job that I like a challenge!

 

cheers

 

Mike

Hello Mike,

 

You can try sending an e-mail to Mike West from Lonestarmodels as he has taken over all the moulds and rights from the Cobra company and he allready has some on his site.....

 

Cheers, Jan

 

 

 

[Don McIntyre]

Cobra Company sets are now owned by Mike West of Lonestar Models. I think he just recently released the 1/72 set.

 

i don't see it listed on his site, but it may be worth checking from time to time to see if he re-releases it.

[bootneck]

On 1/6/2018 at 13:07, Charlie Hugo said:

New Nose, New tail, chnage engine cowlings orientation

I've made some checks and evidently the engine cowlings are the same type as the B-25 Mitchell.  That's interesting as I do have a B-24 and could use those.  As to the other details, they would need to be scratchbuilt. Hopefully someone will come up with a set of plans.  There is a book, in the Naval Fighters series, for the Privateer #93.  Perhaps someone may have that book and could scan some of the salient details for me?

 

On 1/6/2018 at 14:06, Don McIntyre said:

Cobra Company sets are now owned by Mike West of Lonestar Models. I think he just recently released the 1/72 set.  i don't see it listed on his site, but it may be worth checking from time to time to see if he re-releases it.

Thanks, that is interesting to know and I shall keep a lookout for it being re-issued.

 

In the meantime, I would still like to continue preparing to do a conversion of the Minicraft Liberator kit, I'll probably do a WiP for it on BM; therefore I am still looking for info, plans or links to articles if anyone can assist please.

 

cheers

 

Mike

[PDH]

Mike,

If memory recalls correctly there was a conversion article in an Airfix Magazine way back, 1960's/early 70's? Obviously it used an Airfix 1/72 Liberator kit as the base model but if you can find a copy I think you'd find it very helpful.

 

Didn't see you at Telford so hopefully we can catch up at a show in the South West this year.

 

Peter

[bootneck]

Thanks Peter, I shall have a looksee amongst the Airfix Magazines that I have.  I don't mind what scale any conversion article refers to, in fact larger scale conversions usually show much more detail in their photo's.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Graham Boak]

You could perhaps make the conversion easier by using two B-24 kits to extend the fuselage fore-and-aft; with a set of engines from a Minicraft C-54, rather than from two B-25s.  I can't think of any shortcut to the new horizontal and vertical tail, other perhaps from a B-29?  Better to scratchbuilt those parts, depending upon your preferences.

[bootneck]

I hadn't thought of that and it is a very interesting idea.  I would still need data on where to make any cuts and re-shaping though.  My stash is fairly well stocked with B-24's and I also have a C-54 and B-29 so might just look at doing something that way.  I only have the one C-54 though so perhaps making a mould of one of those engines could save me losing a whole kit.  Do you know if the B-29 items are (fairly) identical to the Privateer?  With a little reworking of course.

 

Imagine, a patchwork quilt of kits to make something different!

 

Thanks for this.

 

Mike

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

@bootneck .. Yes they are, the prototype single tail unit was purchased from boeing in 1944. It was not adequate though so consolidated made it taller. I would have to dig out my B-24 book in my office, let me get up there in a little while. I will see if i can photograph the details and post them. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Graham Boak]

It isn't (necessarily) that the B-29 items were that similar, more a matter of being closer in size than anything else.  A B-50 would be better still...  However, I would be willing to offer money for a C-54 kit without engines, so perhaps we could come to some arrangement?  (For an Argonaut conversion.)

[Graham Boak]

There were two such conversions (at least) in Airfix magazine.  The first was in July 1967, where D L Whiting added a 35mm stretch (from obechi) between the cockpit and the dorsal turret - then moving the turret.  He made the fin and tailplane from balsa stock, and simply but wrongly rotated the engines through 90 degrees.  The second was in August 1970 when Alan W Hall did an RY-3 by carving the fuselage and tail from balsa.  He used Hercules cowlings from either Stirling or Halifax.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Graham Boak

[Adam Maas]

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

@bootneck .. Yes they are, the prototype single tail unit was purchased from boeing in 1944. It was not adequate though so consolidated made it taller. I would have to dig out my B-24 book in my office, let me get up there in a little while. I will see if i can photograph the details and post them. 

The B-29 tail was used on one of the B-32 Dominator prototypes (XB-32 41-142 ), not the B-24N or the Privateer, all of which received the modified Dominator single tail derived from the B-29 tail test data which was initially fitted to XB-32 41-18336. The B-24K (the other single-tail B-24) used a different tail unit than all the production designs.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Adam Maas

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

That could be Adam. I had thought the B-24N came first. Its been a while since I’ve looked at the books. I may have crossed the blood lines of which came first. The Dominator or B-24n. 

[Adam Maas]

8 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

That could be Adam. I had thought the B-24N came first. Its been a while since I’ve looked at the books. I may have crossed the blood lines of which came first. The Dominator or B-24n. 

IIRC the single tail development started with the B-24K (a complete one-off) in early 1943, then the B-32's took over after the original XB-32 proved to have tail issues (it originally had a similar tail to a regular B-24), then back to the B-24 family with the N and PB4Y-2. The N was definitely fitted with a B-32 tail, the first aircraft to have that tail fitted was XB-32 41-18336 in November 1943, the B-24N was only ordered in April of 1944 with the prototype delivered in November, a year after the third XB-32 was delivered with the Consolidated single tail fin.

I'm not sure how close the B-24K tail was to what was eventually fitted to the B-32 & PB4Y-2

Edited January 6, 2018 by Adam Maas

[Julien]

If you are looking fro the Koster stuff resin2detail just acquired the Koster stuff.

 

r

[72modeler]

Mike,

 

If you're going to do a Privateer as a firebomber in 1/144 scale, you will need two B-24 kits to provide for the fore and aft fuselage plugs; you will also need two 1/144 B-25 kits for the four CW R-2600's and props that were fitted to almost all of the Privateer firebombers, as the original engines were P&W R-1830's that had props with a more narrow chord than the B-25 props. You would have to scratchbuild new vertical and horizontal stabilizers, but with two B-24 donor kits, you might have enough plastic on the kit horizontal stabs to make the new ones. The nose forward of the cockpit would also have to be scratchbuilt, and there were a couple of variations of the clear nosecap, so be sure to find a photo of the one you want to do.

BTW, the B-24K and B-24N vertical stabilizers were not as tall as the Privateer's, but it looks like the two were pretty much the same at the lower part. Also Mike West of Lonestar Models did get the Cobra 1/72 Privateer update moldings- IIRC he is said to be planning to re-release the Cobra resin detail sets, but a few at a time. I have one and it is well worth getting if someone wants to do a Privateer conversion or attempt to make something of the old Matchbox kit. (I wish Revell would seriously consider doing a new-tool Privateer....I mean, if they could do a Bv-222!)

 

Not an impossible task, Mike, but it can be done...where there's a will, (and a ton of putty!) there's a way!

Mike

[Rick Tsujimura]

Cobra Company did do a 1/144 Privateer for $58 but was discontinued before the company stopped trading and molds sold to Lone Star Models; I don't know if they have this resin kit in stock.  Been trying to buy some 1/72 U-2 cockpits but have not received a reply since the big floods in TX.

Check here:  http://www.lonestarmodels.com/

[72modeler]

10 hours ago, Adam Maas said:

IIRC the single tail development started with the B-24K (a complete one-off) in early 1943, then the B-32's took over after the original XB-32 proved to have tail issues (it originally had a similar tail to a regular B-24), then back to the B-24 family with the N and PB4Y-2. The N was definitely fitted with a B-32 tail, the first aircraft to have that tail fitted was XB-32 41-18336 in November 1943, the B-24N was only ordered in April of 1944 with the prototype delivered in November, a year after the third XB-32 was delivered with the Consolidated single tail fin.

I'm not sure how close the B-24K tail was to what was eventually fitted to the B-32 & PB4Y-2

See if these help- links to photos of the XB-24K, B-24N, PB4Y-4 and the B-32, showing good views of the fin and rudder. I don't believe any single fin B-24's were fitted with a B-32 unit, but I could be (and usually am!) wrong. There were a few of the B-32's that were initially fitted with a B-29 fin and rudder, but these were quickly replaced with the production tall tails. A shame the late production Liberators weren't fitted with the single fin and rudder.

Mike

 

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/b24n/b24n-1.jpg

B-24N

 

http://www.americancombatplanes.com/images/15-32n.jpg

XB-24K

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/03/3d/92/033d92b0c76fca3bc0ee015ab302d255.jpg

PB4Y-4

 

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/b32/b32-3.jpg

B-32

Edited January 7, 2018 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[David H]

There was also an excellent article written in Aerospace Modeler Magazine some years back on doing a Fire Bomber conversion, i think using the Matchbox kit. There was also a writeup by Frank Cuden (?) on building a 1/144th scale Privateer.

 

-d-

[bootneck]

Anyone got a copy?