canberra kid Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 That's good Bill, I couldn't make my mind up from the photos. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 I'm thinking I may want to repaint the gear bays, etc. with a lighter grey. Now that I've looked at those close-up photos, I'm thinking that the colour I used is a wee bit too dark. I don't know, we'll see. I'm always changing my other mind. Cheers, Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 It's not for me to say Bill, it's your build but if it were mine I would. I hope the following photos are of help and the drawing which may help with the plumbing. It's not for me to say Bill, it's your build, John 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Yikes! I'm not Diego Quijano you know. If I tried to do even half of all that plumbing I'd be committed to the @Procopius Asylum for AMS Induced Insanity. Cheers, Bill PS. I've read that some folks use RLM76 as a surrogate for Light Admiralty Grey. I've some of that, maybe I'll do some tests. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I've been using Vallejo 70.973 light sea grey for LAG it matches the phots the guys here have been putting up of Buccaneer legs and other nautical hiddenaway places nicely with dusted on 70.907pale grey blue for contrasting touches But they have the strength of a radio Luxembourg 208 signal, which frankly indicates no strength at all so don't use in high traffic areas 973 does look very much like the real deal though, but acrylic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 I can give Light Sea Grey a try. In my neck of the woods, that's pretty close to FS36373 I think. I believe I have some of that in ModelMaster bottles. Anyway, a couple of shots for now. First, I tried to get a good picture of the flame holders in the afterburners. These are from the Eduard set, and look quite nice I think. Much nicer than either the kit or the CMK resin. As you can see, the exhausts need to be installed in the empennage prior to it being attached to the fuselage. I hope the glue holds, as each exhaust tube is made from three pieces of resin, plus the PE part. You can see that the tail cone has a unique profile, and it has to mate with the same on the fuselage - only the fuselage is made from four separate parts. And I put those spreaders and shims inside, so who knows what I might have done to its profile. But once on, and given a first round of filler, it's not too bad. Oh, I had to add a bit of styrene card at the front of the cockpit opening so the resin coaming would have something to rest (and glue) on. I can't tell you how many times I've had to do this with aftermarket resin coamings. Seems like the producers never think of how to attach it to the model. As of now, I'm giving the model a coat of Alclad grey primer, and then I'll go back and fix all the remaining seam problems and what have you. The primer really works well in showing you these areas. It will also show where I need to restore any scribing that got lost along the way. I really wish they would stick around, but they always seem to run off as soon as they see sandpaper. I spent some time today with the windscreen(s). The kit version is the correct width and will blend in nicely, but it's horribly thick and the view through it is quite distorted. I took the vacuform version and separated out the windscreen and sanded it to the proper shape. It too will blend in nicely, but it's too narrow at the open end. Maybe this won't be a problem as I can easily spread it while I superglue it. Accordingly, both windscreen versions have had a Future bath, and we'll see how they look tomorrow. CMK provide resin inserts for the inside of the hinged canopies, and these have some nice detail. They will obviously not fit the kit parts, so if I want to use them it will have to be with the vacuform parts. More work than I wanted to do, but since this is the definitive TSR.2 model here at Navy Birdland (OK, it's the only TSR.2 model) then we should have a go at it. Cheers, Bill (who is NOT watching the Super Bowl because he doesn't give a rat's behind) 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 All coming together nicely, Bill Looking forward to see her all primed; how are you going to mask the exhausts, BTW? Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 13 hours ago, giemme said: All coming together nicely, Bill Looking forward to see her all primed; how are you going to mask the exhausts, BTW? Thanks Giorgio. I plan on painting the outside surfaces of the empennage with Alclad Magnesium, which is a metal shade that I really like for these areas, as it's not so blue like their version of Stainless Steel. I also used Magnesium on the afterburner petals and rollers, which is about the only part of the exhausts that you can see. In the colour photos of this area, at least those where the petals aren't in much shadow, I don't see a really big tonal difference between these two. So masking becomes quite simple, just some foam inside the exhaust tubes to protect the darker shade (Alclad Steel) that I used inside. I've encountered the first parts that don't really fit very well - the radome and the forward fuselage lower panel. Concerning the latter, why on earth did they make this a separate piece? As it turns out, it's a bit narrower than the fuselage, so that creates a wonderful sanding opportunity. I may not be as close to painting as I thought... Cheers, Bill (currently annoying others with Sillion by Johnny Flynn) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Thanks Bill 11 minutes ago, Navy Bird said: may not be as close to painting as I thought... We'll just wait. Just need a refill for and Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Almost time for supper. Roast beef, mushy peas, Yorkshire pudding, mashed and fried potatoes, gravy, Fuller's London Pride...what's not to like? This photo is from a few years ago, but we're headed back to this pub tonight. Yea! Cheers, Bill 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Why would one want to mush a perfectly good pea? Peas should be round and crisp, just as the pod intended them to be! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillidragon Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Try making a Tarka mixture and putting it on mushy peas instead of lentils... Tarka Mattar. Very good with freshly made chapatiya, parathe, or naan. And - as a special bonus - less wind! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamS Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 55 minutes ago, Chillidragon said: Try making a Tarka mixture and putting it on mushy peas instead of lentils... Tarka Mattar. Very good with freshly made chapatiya, parathe, or naan. And - as a special bonus - less wind! Is that Tarka like chicken tarka masala? You know, the same as chicken tikka masala, but ‘otter...... Well, somebody had to say it. Graham 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 51 minutes ago, GrahamS said: Is that Tarka like chicken tarka masala? You know, the same as chicken tikka masala, but ‘otter...... Well, somebody had to say it. Graham 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 2:53 PM, Navy Bird said: Yikes! I'm not Diego Quijano you know. If I tried to do even half of all that plumbing I'd be committed to the @Procopius Asylum for AMS Induced Insanity. Having never suffered from it myself, I'm well-equipped to treat it in others. Some call my methods crude, barbaric, even, but I prefer to think of myself as a visionary. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Another question for the TSR.2 brain trust: Can I pose the nose wheels turned and maintain the all-moving tail fin/rudder at neutral? Or were they linked as is sometimes seen? Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Bill from what I understand when the nose leg is under load (on the ground) the ruder bar is used for ground steering and fin/rudder is un- cupeled. I will check that with the pilot's notes. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, canberra kid said: Bill from what I understand when the nose leg is under load (on the ground) the ruder bar is used for ground steering and fin/rudder is un- cupeled. I will check that with the pilot's notes. John Just wondering John: how would that work for crosswind landings and take-offs? You'd have a sudden change to or from nosewheel steering as the "weight on wheels" switch(es) tripped. Was there a speed sensor incorporated into the system to allow nosewheel steering at or below normal taxiing speed? I know from Roland Beamont's comments in "Testing Years" that attempts at using differential braking during the initial taxi tests didn't go too well, XR219 simply coming to a halt when the brakes were applied asymmetrically although the situation, IIRC, improved with practice. Interesting point Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 I found this online: Maybe they were coupled? Would make for an interesting display. Cheers, Bill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 hours ago, stever219 said: Just wondering John: how would that work for crosswind landings and take-offs? You'd have a sudden change to or from nosewheel steering as the "weight on wheels" switch(es) tripped. Was there a speed sensor incorporated into the system to allow nosewheel steering at or below normal taxiing speed? I know from Roland Beamont's comments in "Testing Years" that attempts at using differential braking during the initial taxi tests didn't go too well, XR219 simply coming to a halt when the brakes were applied asymmetrically although the situation, IIRC, improved with practice. Interesting point Bill. I was thinking the same Steve, it was just a vague memory, I've found this in book 2 of the AP which goes into a bit more detail of the nuts and bolts, the crew notes don't give much in the way of detail, witch is odd, perhaps with it being for the test pilots they didn't feel the need to spell it out? John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, canberra kid said: I was thinking the same Steve, it was just a vague memory, I've found this in book 2 of the AP which goes into a bit more detail of the nuts and bolts, the crew notes don't give much in the way of detail, witch is odd, perhaps with it being for the test pilots they didn't feel the need to spell it out? <snip> John Great stuff - if I understand that correctly the nose wheels can act independently of the tail fin/rudder if the steering control switch is set to off. I assume by "fin pedals" they mean what I would call rudder pedals. Or do I have my leg before the wicket again? Cheers, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Yes Bill for ' Fin pedels' read rudder pedels. I still can't quite get my head around how it all works, I was thinking, 'fine control' =nose wheel only, 'coarse control'= nose wheel and fin. But I could be, as I quite often am, wrong! John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 The difference between "Fine" and "Coarse" probably has to do with the degree of nosewheel deflection; "Coarse" being required for 90 degree turns, close-in maneuvering on the ramp between aircraft and "Fine" being used for directional control on the taxi straightaways and the takeoff and landing roll. Falcons have a similar system though its all controlled thru the nosewheel steering tiller, depending on the degree of deflection from neutral. Many aircraft have a nosewheel steering tiller, plus a limited amount of nose gear steering control thru the rudder pedals (maybe 5 degrees max, to prevent over-controlling) -d- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Thanks guys. I always enjoy learning about all this stuff. I think I may pose the TSR.2 with the nose wheel turned but not the fin. It seems that was possible with the real aircraft and it will add some interest. Besides, the flight crew have already broken all of the rules for parking your aeroplane - wing and taileron control surfaces off of neutral, air brakes open, etc. They're going to be buying more than one round tonight! So let's see, where are we? I picked a lighter grey for the wheel wells. You can see a comparison here: Should be OK. The lighter grey paint will still be noticeably different than the anti-flash white, but not so stark as before. The forward instrument panel and coaming was added next: This piece is so much better than what came with the kit, and I think the darker grey on the coaming looks close to photos of the actual aircraft. The prototype TSR.2 aircraft did not have a separate HUD glass, as the original design projected the image onto the center windscreen panel. This apparently didn't work well, so it's likely that a traditional HUD would have been used on production planes. Next I decided to spend some time on the windscreen, as it needs to be on the fuselage before the white paint goes on. You may recall that I gave both the vacuform and kit parts a bath in Future, but there really was no comparing the two. The kit windscreen is very thick and has noticeable ripples in it. Lots of distortion. Ugh. The vacuform, however, is not without its faults as it isn't a real good fit (but then the kit part is not so good either). Here is the vac windscreen mounted on the fuselage: Well, nothing that some putty can't fix. Another problem with both the vacuform and kit windscreens is that they're missing the "gusset" or extension at the bottom of the aft windscreen frame. I added these with card stock, and then I blended the windscreen with the fuselage with my red putty. I needed a couple of iterations before I was happy with this, and then a final coat of flat black was applied to represent the interior colour of the windscreen frame. Which, of course, since you're looking through the windscreen plastic, actually looks glossy black on the inside! You can see that the radome is on, and after a bit of sanding I'm happy with the fit. I have the Master brass pitot somewhere, but that won't go on until last. One last thing (I think) before we start painting is the addition of the cameras that were intended to be used during weapons release testing. These are on XR220 only, along with the bonkers plates that Airfix moulded into the wings, so that settles what scheme I'll be modelling. The camera pods are supplied in clear plastic so I first painted the back side black before applying to the fuselage. Then it was a bit of PPP, mask off the camera windows, and we should be ready to go. Next I'll spend a few hours trying to figure out what I've forgotten. Remember, the tailerons and the vertical fin can go on later. I think all the seams are OK, but I'll give that another look. I re-scribed that panel lines on the top of the forward fuselage - there may be some others that are in need. I think she's dangerously close to painting! Cheers, Bill 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 She is looking ever more splendid Bill. So much so that I can feel that I am going to have to build another TSR2 in the near future. You are a temptress Sir! Martian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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