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A Bit of WNW speculation


Chris Jephcott

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2 hours ago, Mark said:

Put me down for one please Duncan!

Of course :) 

I might even have a go at this one. It's not just that it's a WnW for dolts but I have a vague memory of reading about this aircraft being used during that strange period immediately after the War when everyone seemed to be having a free for all to the east. I really must read up on that period, can anyone recommend a good book on that period?

 

Duncan B

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Here you go:

 

Windsock Datafile No. 33 Junkers D.I

Windsock Datafile No. 131 Junkers Monoplanes at War.

Both highly recommended.

 

There is also a Polish title on the Junkers D.I (J.9), by Seweryn M Fleischer, published by Karaya, ISBN 978-83-931751-0-9. Also highly recommended.

 

It will be interesting to see how Wingnut Wings interpret the colour schemes for this airframe as there is some debate as to weather they had a two or three colour scheme. 

 

Christian, exiled to africa and looking forward to his D.I

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It might be worth remembering that the Junkers J.1 was chosen as a very freakish first release by a certain kit manufacturer, and look what it lead on to . . .

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One comment about an 0/400...a kit would have a wingspan of three feet.  Where do you propose to put the thing?

 

I'm a believer in what I call the Rule of 225 (or 1600 if you think metric).  An assembled kit needs to fit into a rectangle of about 225 square inches - about 15 x 15 inches, or 40 x 40 cm.  Much bigger, and it's too big to put anywhere.  

 

Yes, I know about the Felixstowe...kindly note that kit was immediately released in a Duellists boxing with the W.29 that was fetching $200+ on eBay.  I strongly suspect WNW took a financial bath on that kit.  No.  Better to make the smaller aircraft that will sell.  Especially when there are so many to choose from.  A Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter.  Nieuports.  Spads.  SSWs.  A Fokker D.VIII.  A DH-4.  A DH-5 (surprised they haven't done that one, frankly).  Hell, take a crack at a 1/350 Zeppelin.

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6 hours ago, HMSLion said:

One comment about an 0/400...a kit would have a wingspan of three feet.  Where do you propose to put the thing?

 

I'm a believer in what I call the Rule of 225 (or 1600 if you think metric).  An assembled kit needs to fit into a rectangle of about 225 square inches - about 15 x 15 inches, or 40 x 40 cm.  Much bigger, and it's too big to put anywhere.  

 

Yes, I know about the Felixstowe...kindly note that kit was immediately released in a Duellists boxing with the W.29 that was fetching $200+ on eBay.  I strongly suspect WNW took a financial bath on that kit.  No.  Better to make the smaller aircraft that will sell.  Especially when there are so many to choose from.  A Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter.  Nieuports.  Spads.  SSWs.  A Fokker D.VIII.  A DH-4.  A DH-5 (surprised they haven't done that one, frankly).  Hell, take a crack at a 1/350 Zeppelin.

If WnW want to do one they will, the 'financial bath' wouldn't be a consideration as WnW (up to the time of the Camel release at any rate) had never turned a profit anyway. A 'normal' Company's prime objective is to make a profit for the shareholders, this Company's prime objective appears to be to make kits that the major shareholder wants to see.

 

Duncan B

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The Gotha comes in at 31" , so whats another 5 " or so anyway!

I agree there is no way I can believe WNW runs a profit , I bet its a 'loser' to balance out all of the 'winners' in the owners portfolio.

What is a 'bath' to normal people , would be considered a drop in the bucket for WNW's owner !

At the very least they have elevated considerably the definition of 'model kit'.

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19 hours ago, krow113 said:

At the very least they have elevated considerably the definition of 'model kit'.

I'd suggest they've invented the "coffee table kit", in the same fashion as the coffee table book.  I'd never allow a stash to develop in the living room under normal circumstances, but WingNut Wings kits?  Well . . . 

Edited by Dave Batt
gramer & spelin
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The Junkers D.1 is being released in April so I would expect it to arrive in Europe in May/June depending on whether they are shipped or flown in. The price looks similar to the Sopwith Camel prices and I will start taking pre-orders, for anyone who's interested, once my Distributor confirms his prices.

 

Duncan B

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I don't think WNW runs a loss.  Peter Jackson isn't stupid.  The trick is that TVAL and WNW are joined at the hip.  They're using one set of research information.  This cuts overhead considerably.  But if you think about it, we're paying $80 for a single-seat fighter kit.  $120 for a two-seat/single engine kit.  $240+ for a multi-engine kit.  Which are sky-high prices, if you think about it.  Not that we aren't getting our money's worth...but I suspect WNW averages a decent return on investment.

 

The one thing that someone could make money with would be photo-etched rigging.  I'm surprised nobody has done it.

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Photo-etch rigging has been done and proven to not work.

IMG_4526.jpg

 

 

 Also no-one has said anything about anyone being stupid.

The winner/loser scenario has to do with tax's.

If you have a winner , the extra tax burden can be alleviated by having a loser.

I've seen it done in Canada , I dunno about N.Z.

So it is actually smart to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in setting up a manufacturing facility , paying designers and engineers and fabricators and God knows who else to make model kits!

It would be a good bet that he hasn't even got his set-up lolly back yet.

Edited by krow113
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It isn't wild speculation on my part about WnW not having turned a profit (as of the Camel release). This is a statement based on a conversation I had with someone who (you have all heard of) and knows the Company very well. 

 

Duncan B 

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14 hours ago, Duncan B said:

The Junkers D.1 is being released in April so I would expect it to arrive in Europe in May/June depending on whether they are shipped or flown in. The price looks similar to the Sopwith Camel prices and I will start taking pre-orders, for anyone who's interested, once my Distributor confirms his prices.

 

Duncan B

 

Just to check; Is my name down??????;)

 

Christian, exiled to africa

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13 hours ago, HMSLion said:

The one thing that someone could make money with would be photo-etched rigging.  I'm surprised nobody has done it.

They have and it looks awful (IMHO).

 

I won't name the company product but having tried it, it just flopped around and looked like runs of sagging and flattened steel bars between the struts..... and that's before any paint is added making it thicker yet to dull the high sheen of the etched metal. I have yet to see anyone pull this off properly and convincingly at shows etc. where the top flight in the hobby display their skills and if anyone can do it, then kudus to you. Given how thin the things were in 1/1 scale, I just don't see how it's a viable option or indeed possibility in tiny 1/32 (a) to get it to proper scale and (b) for it to keep properly tensioned...and then keep it over time too!

 

Gary

 

 

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21 hours ago, Duncan B said:

Right at the top of the stamp sized order form :)

Hi Duncan, 

 

You might need a bigger stamp, asyou can put me down for one.  This might help you with your order from the Distributor, but at any rate will keep Christian from feeling lonely....

 

Peter

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5 minutes ago, dambuster said:

You might need a bigger stamp, asyou can put me down for one.  This might help you with your order from the Distributor, but at any rate will keep Christian from feeling lonely....

Cheers Peter, it's nice to know that I am not alone. Plus, when people start badgering away after the exclusive, WIP I can send them your way!;)

 

I wonder if they will do the two-seat versions as well????

 

Christian, exiled to africa

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Okay Folks, I have the details from my Distributor so I'll set up a separate thread in my Vendor's section on BM to avoid cluttering up this thread. Anyone who is interested in pre-ordering please head over to my Vendor's section or to the BlackMike Models website (Mark and Christian you are excused as I have your details already!).

 

Duncan B 

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  • 1 month later...
On 05/02/2018 at 12:15 AM, HMSLion said:

I don't think WNW runs a loss.  Peter Jackson isn't stupid.  The trick is that TVAL and WNW are joined at the hip.  They're using one set of research information.  This cuts overhead considerably.  But if you think about it, we're paying $80 for a single-seat fighter kit.  $120 for a two-seat/single engine kit.  $240+ for a multi-engine kit.  Which are sky-high prices, if you think about it.  Not that we aren't getting our money's worth...but I suspect WNW averages a decent return on investment.

 

The one thing that someone could make money with would be photo-etched rigging.  I'm surprised nobody has done it.

When Peter Jackson first started WNW, he was on record as saying that it was not there to make a profit. He wanted it to make model kits that he wanted to buy.

 

If it IS a profit oriented business, it's doing a very poor job. They run out of kits far too quickly, because they don't make enough. And then, when the kit goes OOP, they don't even consider re-issuing any. A normal business would be making as much product as the market wants to purchase. They don't offer kits that are hugely popular and would sell like hot cakes, such as the Fokker Triplane, BE.2, Nieuports and SPADS. They do offer some very niche stuff that not many people - outside of PJ - have been asking for, like the DFW C.V.

 

I tried photo-etched rigging, using Radub's 1/32 PE rigging, on a WNW SE.5a. It was an absolute disaster, just does not work at all. EZ-Line or 2lb fishing line is far superior. And cheaper.

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I don't say profit is uppermost, merely that I doubt WNW is run without regard to it.  I'll also observe that WNW tends to do markings that are not the "usual suspects".  An example is the Sopwith Triplane.  When you think of that airplane, you instantly think of Naval 8's Black Flight.  Specifically, Raymond Collishaw's "Black Maria".  Markings not provided...until a Duellist release, I'd bet.

 

FWIW, I've had good luck rigging with .010 wire.

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I have had it from the guys at Wingnuts that profit is not a consideration although they did say that 'total loss' was something they wanted to avoid. My guess is that production runs are generally of a size that means that they can, hopefully, break even on design, development and tooling costs. Basically, once a kit has sold out it has paid for itself and perhaps a little more besides to be ploughed into the development of the next kit. As such I guess you could call them a 'not for profit' organisation.

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I'd like to say I really like that WNW approach, for (just like everyone else, I am sure) I have seen the results of 'profit driven' choices and limitations and sometimes it has left me decidedly underwhelmed.

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On 25/03/2018 at 12:44 AM, dekenba said:

I tried photo-etched rigging, using Radub's 1/32 PE rigging, on a WNW SE.5a. It was an absolute disaster, just does not work at all. EZ-Line or 2lb fishing line is far superior. And cheaper.

100% agree

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