Loyd Carriers in the Desert?

[Stephen Hawkins]

Did Loyd Carriers make it to the Desert?  And if so, what, if anything, did they tow?

 

2 pounder?  I am aware that they were used as tractors for the 6 pounder in Normandy, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[DaveyGair]

Hi Steve, I've never come across any reference indicating they were used in the desert, even though 13,000 of the things were built! Someone on here might know better though. We quickly found that towing A/T guns across the desert didn't do them any good, thus the building of 'portee' type vehicles to mount them on put less stress on them from 'bouncing' around and made them quicker to get into action and get out again!

 

Davey.

[Niall]

I also don't think they were used in the Desert. In north west Europe they also towed the 4.2" mortar trailer.

[JackG]

There is a couple photos of British vehicles unloaded at the port of Alexandria in 1940, with the cruiser HMS York in the background.  In the center right there are a few Loyd carriers.  The recent publication by Peter brown on the A9& A10 has a much better photo and one can clearly see the one Loyd (that is facing forward) from a head on angle.

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Blimey, so there are! 

[Kingsman]

As they're apparently with an armoured unit might they be the Starting And Charging version?

[JackG]

No idea of the type, but per Peter Brown's photo caption, this armour belonged to 2RTR. 

Note too, as was custom for the period, vehicles were delivered in standard European scheme.

 

regards,

Jack

[Stephen Hawkins]

Thanks chaps,

 

I have a Plastic Soldier Lloyd carrier set, which contains a pair of Loyd carriers with a pair of 6 pounders.  I wanted to do them in desert colours.  But although it seems that both types of equipment were in theatre, they were not necessarily paired up.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Kingsman]

This was in the days before tanks had auxiliary engines and IIRC armoured units were allocated Carriers, Starting And Charging to - as the name implies - charge batteries and jump start reluctant vehicles.  So it seems to me that wherever armoured units went, these carriers were sure to follow.  If Recce Squadron/Troop had any carriers they would be Universals.

 

Interestingly, the book "Making Tracks - The British Carrier Story" by Chamberlain & Ellis says this about the Loyd (only 1 L) as a gun tractor in the Desert. 

 

"Its major importance, however, arose from the sudden urgent and larger requirements for mobile anti-tank guns, particularly in the Western Desert fighting.  Due to the demand for the use of the Loyd as a towing vehicle for the 2pdr and (later) 6pdr gun a requirement arose for improved load capacity and tractive ability, both of which were considered inadequate for a gun tower.  Work was undertaken, therefore, to develop several improved models during 1943, but due to the continued demand for the Loyd as a 6pdr gun tractor in quantity, the mechanical weakness of this vehicle was accepted and no modifications were allowed to be incorporated that would slow or delay production of the machine."

 

It later goes on to say.....

"With the demand for mobile anti-tank guns due to the situation in the Western Desert, the Loyd Carrier was adapted to tow the 2pdr and later the 6pdr anti-tank guns, with the necessary stowage arrangements for gun crew, ammunition and gun accessories."

 

This implies that adaption of the Loyd into a gun tractor actually took place specifically for the desert war: prior to that it had other roles.  So you can fairly safely assume that Loyds were used as gun tractors in the Western Desert.  There is a preserved one painted in desert colour, but that can't be taken as authoritative.  A couple of Loyd pics on line look like desert at first glance, but on closer inspection are not. 

 

I did find a photo taken somewhere hot and dusty (blocky cam scheme suggests Sudan) captioned "bren gun carrier 1942" which is actually a pre-war Light Dragon gun tractor.  If those were still being used in 1942 then it's a racing certainty the Loyd was being used too. 

 

Towing a 6pdr with a Universal Carrier was only supposed to be done in an emergency over a short distance - although it is frequently photographed.  The Loyd was preferred as it was easier to drive, and there were 12 (!!) Marks of Carrier, Tracked, Towing: 4 for the 2pdr and 8 for the 6pdr or 4.2 mortar.