RichG Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Yes interesting, tactical was pretty short lived. Incidentally you may want to darken the blue line against 43 (it was of course an FG.1 equipped unit..) Rich Edited January 21, 2018 by RichG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Thanks @71chally, I really like this sort of chart information. I'm partial to think that this does have modelling benefits especially for chaps like me who tend to model with squadron preferences in mind. Good work young man! Cheers.. Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 9 hours ago, RichG said: Incidentally you may want to darken the blue line against 43 (it was of course an FG.1 equipped unit..) Rich Oh bum! A week or so ago I had to move a couple of the sqns around due to a wrong date, and I must have removed the dark blue then, thank you for bringing that to my notice Rob. Thanks for the comments, it did take some doing, especially as some of the dates vary a bit according to the various sources. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britman Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Without trying to upset anyone and given the discussion regarding the "M" ,does anybody know if this was the finished article? The lightning bolt surely wasn't the finished article was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktjet Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 These last few pages are interesting. What part did RAF Aldergrove play in the British Phantom program? When I was there in 84, there was a phantom test rig, I was told the engines were fitted and tested there - clearly not true. Incidentally, regarding the pointy vs blunt end SUU pod, wasn't the pointy end just a removable aerodynamic cone? I was told that the cone could be removed to allow the pod to be fitted on the inner wing pylon (USAF fit?) They were latter permanently deleted from RAF use because of the risk of them falling off in-flight. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Aldergrove was the reception and acceptance station for Phantoms which were flown there from McDonnells'. The aircraft were then prepared for RAF service by 23 MU. After this maintenance was carried out until early 1978 before St Athan became the principle service maintenance establishment for the Phantom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Blacktjet said: These last few pages are interesting. What part did RAF Aldergrove play in the British Phantom program? When I was there in 84, there was a phantom test rig, I was told the engines were fitted and tested there - clearly not true. Incidentally, regarding the pointy vs blunt end SUU pod, wasn't the pointy end just a removable aerodynamic cone? I was told that the cone could be removed to allow the pod to be fitted on the inner wing pylon (USAF fit?) They were latter permanently deleted from RAF use because of the risk of them falling off in-flight. 23 Maintenance Unit was set up at RAF Aldergrove in 1968 to carry out all the acceptance checks on the Phantoms being delivered to the RAF. It was later responsible, together with 60MU at Leconfield; 19 and 32MU's at St Athans, for various upgrades and repaints as the aircraft went through the programmes established by HS Brough, the Design Authority. 23MU closed in 1978 and 60MU stood down in 1977. Regardig the short/pointy end of the SUU gun. The 48th TFW and the 401stTFW had both. I understood from the 48th that it was done so that the gun could be carried (empty) on the port inner pylon which facilitated keeping the centreline tank :- HTH Dennis Edited January 22, 2018 by sloegin57 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) I have seen a pic of a Phantom toting 3 gun pods, cant remember if it was USAF or RAF, but would guess the former! Forgot about Leconfield, was that princibly to look after the RAFG Phantoms? Edited January 22, 2018 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, 71chally said: That doesn't make sense Dave, Dennis has shown us a picture of it with the red M in Sep 89, my pic shows it without on port side on 8 Aug 90, and the Air Team images shows it on stb'd side leaving same event on the 10 Aug. Thanks for confiming the operator, I did wonder if it was the OCU as they had moved to Leuchars by then. I guess the last flight was in 1991 rather than 1992? Now that becomes interesting - the 'official' last flight was at the 1990 Airshow (I have a print flown in the aircraft at that occasion) yet there are online sources saying her last flight was 16/2/92. I'm sure she was on static at the 91 show. I've asked in the British Phanton FB group, I'll see what come sup I photographed both sides at the airshow, and the red 'M' was on both sides of the fin (along with 43 Sqn zaps on the middle of the 111 fin badge!) Taken immdiately after 'last' flight 26731283_10157045947329922_7689695911122780297_n by David Fleming, on Flickr Just before 26734233_10157045956454922_2600087457476114181_n by David Fleming, on Flickr Edited January 22, 2018 by Dave Fleming 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, 71chally said: I have seen a pic of a Phantom toting 3 gun pods, cant remember if it was USAF or RAF, but would guess the former! USAF, Vietnam IIRC - there is a photo of a USANG one with 4 gunpods fitted Edited January 22, 2018 by Dave Fleming 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 54 minutes ago, Dave Fleming said: Now that becomes interesting - the 'official' last flight was at the 1990 Airshow (I have a print flown in the aircraft at that occasion) yet there are online sources saying her last flight was 16/2/92. I'm sure she was on static at the 91 show. I've asked in the British Phanton FB group, I'll see what come sup 76114181_n by David Fleming, on Flickr Confirmation that her last flight was Sept 1990,. so where the 1992 date comes from is anyone's guess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: USAF, Vietnam IIRC - there is a photo of a USANG one with 4 gunpods fitted Somewhere in the archive I have a picture of a Michigan F4 (C or D) with 5 attached; for an airshow only and it wouldn't have got off the ground. The a/c was in overall ADC gray with the high viz, yellow/black, markings and a light gray nose cone. EDIT: Found it. Phantom Guardians by Daniel Soulaine (Osprey) p94. F-4D 66-0243 July 1988. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: USAF, Vietnam IIRC - there is a photo of a USANG one with 4 gunpods fitted I am not sure if it is 4 or 5 gunpods fitted in that photo. I know there are 4 on the wings, but I am not sure if there is one under the fuselage. Just seen post above. Edited January 22, 2018 by Jabba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, iainpeden said: Somewhere in the archive I have a picture of a Michigan F4 (C or D) with 5 attached; for an airshow only and it wouldn't have got off the ground. The a/c was in overall ADC gray with the high viz, yellow/black, markings and a light gray nose cone. EDIT: Found it. Phantom Guardians by Daniel Soulaine (Osprey) p94. F-4D 66-0243 July 1988. This one? I couldn't see the centre line. The USMC used a fit of three mk 4 gun pods in VMFA-122, was probably the other fit I was thinking on Edited January 22, 2018 by Dave Fleming 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Not that one but I'd love to see a side on shot of it. Is it legal/allowable on here to scan a picture and post it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Corrected version! Phantom FG.1 & FGR.2 Squadrons Chart by James Thomas, on Flickr Edited January 22, 2018 by 71chally 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 hours ago, 71chally said: Corrected version! Phantom FG.1 & FGR.2 Squadrons Chart by James Thomas, on Flickr Just to add to your confusion, 43 Sqn operated a small number of FGR2s in the final year of operations 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 11 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: Just to add to your confusion, 43 Sqn operated a small number of FGR2s in the final year of operations No confusion Dave. I have seen references to 43 Sqn possibly taking FGR.2s on charge from 1988 but I personally haven't found any evidence of this. That is not to say they didn't of course, and if anyone has any documentation or photographs that show that they did I will try and amend the above chart. However I don't want the chart to get too messy, and for this reason that is why I haven't added the odd FG.1 operated by 228 OCU either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, 71chally said: No confusion Dave. I have seen references to 43 Sqn possibly taking FGR.2s on charge from 1988 but I personally haven't found any evidence of this. That is not to say they didn't of course, and if anyone has any documentation or photographs that show that they did I will try and amend the above chart. However I don't want the chart to get too messy, and for this reason that is why I haven't added the odd FG.1 operated by 228 OCU either. It was certainly listed in Aviation news at the time, and I'm sure I have notes somewhere - will have a look 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, 71chally said: No confusion Dave. I have seen references to 43 Sqn possibly taking FGR.2s on charge from 1988 but I personally haven't found any evidence of this. That is not to say they didn't of course, and if anyone has any documentation or photographs that show that they did I will try and amend the above chart. However I don't want the chart to get too messy, and for this reason that is why I haven't added the odd FG.1 operated by 228 OCU either. XV470 was one of them. She was also the last a/c serviced at the ASF at Coningsby and carried a couple of markings on the port side - one below the cockpit the other above the roundal/checkers to signify it. She was coded AW and is the subject of one of the later Modeldecal sheets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs2man Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, 71chally said: No confusion Dave. I have seen references to 43 Sqn possibly taking FGR.2s on charge from 1988 but I personally haven't found any evidence of this. That is not to say they didn't of course, and if anyone has any documentation or photographs that show that they did I will try and amend the above chart. However I don't want the chart to get too messy, and for this reason that is why I haven't added the odd FG.1 operated by 228 OCU either. I seem to recall that XV406 also served with 43 Sqn . There was an article in , IIRC , Air International & the cover photo was an FGR2 in 43 markings , which I'm sure was XV406 . I may well still have the magazine somewhere . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, rs2man said: I seem to recall that XV406 also served with 43 Sqn . You are right as AV c mid 1988, even have a copy of an air to air pic with it! RAM Models has a decal sheet of XV470 as AW in Aug 88, but it was with the OCU from Aug 87 to at least Jan 91, so maybe loaned across temporarily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, 71chally said: You are right as AV c mid 1988, even have a copy of an air to air pic with it! RAM Models has a decal sheet of XV470 as AW in Aug 88, but it was with the OCU from Aug 87 to at least Jan 91, so maybe loaned across temporarily? I have a copy of her official record from the RAF Museum (Form 78) on which it states: Delivered to 23 MU 23/9/69 Moving on with movement dates 11/2/86 56 sqd 28/2/86 228 OCU Coningsby 22/4/87 228 OCU Leuchars 01/06/88 43 sqd and this is the potential belter 7.11.88 111 sqd Leuchars (was she marked up?) I know she finished as BD with 56 at Wattisham and currently sits at Akrotiri 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) XV470 - they were loaned across from the OCU as the number of servicable FG1s fell. You can see where the OCU badge and code have been removed Edited January 23, 2018 by Dave Fleming 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Good picture which I have added to my XV470 file - now, any photos of her with 111? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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