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Airfix 1/72 Phantom FG.1 in Stock at Hornby


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34 minutes ago, 71chally said:

Talking of Saints and Phantom special schemes, this is my favourite after Black Mike.

 

At this stage there was only one very tiny difference that gave away which jet was which.

2185341702_ee8dacf42a_b.jpgAlcock and Brown by Paul, on Flickr

Paul - Flickr

Later XV486 had '486' added to nose gear door to differentiate it from XV424.

Just as an aside, I wonder if the RAF will do anything to commemorate the centenary of Alcock and Browne's Transatlantic flight next year?

Back on topic, I'm hoping the Modeldecal markings for the above are a good fit for the new Phantom. Weren't they designed with the old Matchbox kit in mind, which was the only option available back in the day?

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1 minute ago, Scimitar said:

I even looked up an old thread on the Alcock and Brown Phantoms in which a certain @71chally of that ilk asked if the two were ever photographed together :smile:

That was during research on the scheme, I coincidentally found that photo afterwards and was put in touch with someone that knew the painters involved - funny how things come about

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Back in the day I used to build model Jags for people leaving Coltishall. One (reluctant) ex-Phantom colleague told me he'd give the pussy cat a test flight if I presented him one. So I made him a flying pair of a certain F4 minus one AIM-9 and a Jag in front of it. He quite liked that I think

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36 minutes ago, 71chally said:

Well done Dave, it is indeed the colour of that aerial mid spine area, XV747 having the black aerial.

It's an incredibly small detail, but it allows you to identify the jets from each other from most angles.

Of course a few other minor differences not mentioned but fairly noticeable, with specs, are the rotating nozzles, one less crew member and one less engine - And the anhedral is on both wings and tailplane.

 

I'll get me coat !!! :evil_laugh: :coat:

 

Dennis 

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4 minutes ago, sloegin57 said:

Of course a few other minor differences not mentioned but fairly noticeable, with specs, are the rotating nozzles, one less crew member and one less engine - And the anhedral is on both wings and tailplane.

 

I'll get me coat !!! :evil_laugh: :coat:

 

Dennis 

But other than those small details......

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OK peeps - give me half an hour to get some stuff uploaded to Imgur and I'll put up a few shots of mine of XT863 which for some reason seems to be "flavour of the day".  I'll add a few more FG.1's of interest after (after when I am not sure !)

 

Dennis 

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OK - that took a little longer than expected plus a mandatory coffee break was called for.  FG.1 shots taken ver a period of years  - mainly XT863 (they should be self explanatory :-

 

 

ChXssbg.jpg

On the day that 892 left Leuchars for the last time.

 

XT863 was off loaded from the Ark Royal to St Athan on the 27th November 1978. The aircraft was delivered to 111Sqdn on the 10th April 1980.  During that period she was flown from St's to Brough for the ILS fit, Gun mod and outer mainplanes replacement.  Apparently she flew there in 892's markings and back to St's in primer.

It must be remembered that '863 was one of five aircraft delivered to Leuchars in the original dead matt scheme.  After complaints by the Squadrons that these aircraft were almost impossible to keep clean, the paint formulae was changed to a smoother satin finish.  This change affected the perceived look of the finish, the Barley grey taking on a distinctive, under certain conditions of bright sunlight, blueish haze.  This in turn led to the belief that the upper surfaces of the Phantoms were all the same colour and I had many conversations with both the late Dick Ward and the late Alan Carlaw about it.  Indeed I had an urgent note from Dick asking me to confirm the presence of three colours prior to his releasing MD set 67 where he had incorporated changes to 43's markings that I had advised him of.  It did not help either that the Lightnings were beginning to appear with the upper surfaces all Barley Grey and the undersurfaces of the mainplanes and tailplanes Light Aircraft Grey.  With the change to the new spec paint, it was found to be easier (much) to keep clean but difficult to differentiate between the Barley Grey of the fuselage and the MSG of the upper inner mainplanes - both having a bluish haze.

On the attached photos the difference between the two greys is marked.  Later photos will show a subtle difference.

 

152HWzG.jpg   

Roughly two months after delivery to 111Sqdn

 

IO60ezh.jpg

 

MU6zhgn.jpg

 

UVHW5aD.jpg

The Phantoms at Leuchars were subject to a 28 day washing regime in a dedicated wash hangar.  Despite pressure washers and very strong

chemicals, the dirt refused to budge an indeed it was found that the very act of scrubbing caused the dirt to be even more ingrained in the 

matt paint.  The photo below was taken deliberately the day after '863 had been scrubbed.  The photo above shows how much dirt became ingrained

in just a 28 day period.

 

jLLqUZf.jpg

 

The following shots were taken whilst the aircraft was being prepared for respray in the Ark Royal hangar July 1983

U3kcv14.jpg

 

RnGQ5yD.jpg

 

5Cd0pAi.jpg

 

qJMesDr.jpg

 

dBSNowz.jpg

 

This is XT870, the first grey aircraft that Leuchars received.  This aircraft was in the original very matt grey scheme. Looked good - but did not last long.  XT863 looked like this - briefly !!.

44KLnff.jpg

 

Thats 863 out of the way.  I'll put some more up later or tomorrow with reference to the incorrect (as far as the Navy were concerned) outer mainplane undersurfaces in the Airfix kit, additional and various markings for the under surfaces of the outer mainplanes and evidence that St's did not strip all the paint of but a bit of what they put on - did come off.  But it was not St's fault

 

Enjoy

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

Edited by sloegin57
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19 hours ago, Scimitar said:

Yesterday I was reading a list on an internet site which gave an easy readable (spreadsheet) history of every British Phantom.

Now I can't find it.

I was wondering how many Airfix phantoms I would need if I was to build only XT863 in all her guises let alone the others,but I'm not that committed.

 

Richard  (did I say I needed 21 Scimitars at last count?)

Here ya go Richard, think this may be what you were looking for?

 

www.f4phantomeers.org.uk/RAF%20Phantoms%20history.xls 

 

Paul

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Hi All 

I am really enjoying this thread especially the bits about colours.

   Have any of you read the article in July 2017 edition of SAM ( I haven't yet ) magazine suggesting that the RN colour is DSG instead of EDSG, can anyone shed light on this.

 

Regards Glenn

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22 minutes ago, cardiff guy said:

Hi All 

I am really enjoying this thread especially the bits about colours.

   Have any of you read the article in July 2017 edition of SAM ( I haven't yet ) magazine suggesting that the RN colour is DSG instead of EDSG, can anyone shed light on this.

 

Regards Glenn

 

Did a bit of research on this last year. The ORIGINAL official MDD Paint shop diagrams for the F-4K list the paint as Dark Sea Grey; the same code is used on the F4M diagrams for RAF camouflage.

 

HOWEVER. The late Dick Ward said that the RN always regarded the aircraft as being in Extra Dark Sea Grey, and certainly, whilst the colour does look slightly different to Buccaneers when seen on Ark, it is too dark for DSG, and certainly all the colour photos of early aircraft show a darker colour than you would expect for DSG, and a pretty good match to EDSG.

 

It maybe that the very first aircraft was originally painted a DSG equivalent,  (There is a photo that show sit with the 'No 1 F-4K logo overpainted in a darker shade of grey) but I would imagine that the RN would have quickly sorted any issues with colour.

 

Edited by Dave Fleming
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21 hours ago, 71chally said:

Yeah I absolutely get what you are saying, what I'm asking is did you possibly see it getting it's second set of grey, the grey that we see in the summer '83 air show shots?  Given that it was already in a tatty grey finish in May '83.

 

I'm a historian here at St Athan, and there a few Phantom pics in the archive.  Saints generally stripped the jets to bare metal, and then repainted, but I wouldn't know if every aircraft was done that way.  You would think that a carrier based aircraft would be stripped right back, just for skin corrosion checks.

 

Great to here this stuff from first hand sources.

What a cool job..........

 

MM

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Next question for the real Phanatics, is there a definitive list of which aircraft had the belly reinforcing plates that are catered for in the kit with the 2 different lower wing sections? 

 

I'm looking to build either XV571 or XV577 but cannot seem to find any info in the Double Ugly books, or online that states what aircraft received these, or indeed any clear underside pics of these 2 aircraft.

 

Any clues?

 

Eng

 

 

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Oh, it's not a job MM (wish it was), and to be fair there is probably about four of us individuals desperately preserving and trying to present various aspects of the stations' history, coming close to getting a display building now, with the possibility of something much grander in the future - something Wales really needs.

 

I have to say, the above posts from Dennis, Duncan and John is what this forum is all about for me, I don't that we could we ask for better information on a single airframe finish history like that.  Thank you.

 

 

Re the FAA Phantoms grey colour, I was under the impression that they were painted in St Louis by MaccyDees in a grey that was roughly equivalent to Dark Sea Grey, but once they had gone through their first repaint in the Navys' hands they became Extra Dark Sea Grey.  Don't know if that originates from a reliable source or an just hear say.

By the time they spent some time in the air and especially at sea the finish weathered and faded considerably anyway.

Edited by 71chally
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