71chally Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) Your photographs are fantastic Dennis, there would be a hell of a 'British Phantoms' book if you and Ian Black ever combined talents! Edited January 28, 2018 by 71chally 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, Antti_K said: I wasn't talking about letters being painted on the under surfaces at the first place. I tried to say that these treated areas look like a letter (E or F). I'm okay with that when someone criticises my opinions for a good reason. Kind Regards, Antti Hi Antti, appreciate what you said and understood it as you meant above, however I believe that the photo Dennis posted has been used previously as "evidence" that something ending F had been written on the underside of the wing. As Dennis has kindly confirmed, this was not the case. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hi Dave, that's nice to hear (I was afraid that my English went terribly wrong and everyone understood everything completely wrong). I could tell you a story about Libya and words written wrong; very very horribly wrong. Luckily we escaped unharmed... It seems that some "Photo Interpreters" have more vivid imagination than others... Kind Regards, Antti 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 12:58 AM, Phone Phixer said: An armourer has entered the room! In 1/72 modelling terms, there is no difference. The British version was known as a CBTE, Carrier Bomb Triple Ejector. The angle between the 3 bomb racks (ERU's) was more on the CBTE to cater for the increased diameter of British 1,000lb bombs. There were a few small differences for the different fuzing systems aswell. The CBTE was bolted to a multiple weapons adapter, as shown in the diagrams in Johns post #443. The MWA was then bolted to the pylon. In the case of the inboard pylons, it was the same location for the Lau 7a Sidewinder launchers. Hence, with the use of longer attachment bolts, you could have the combo of MWA/CBTE and Lau 7a's. The FAA seemed to use this fit, the RAF not so much, if at all. As a result of all this bolting of stuff together, normal weapon release was from the bomb racks in the CBTE. In the brown underpants moments when everything needed jettisoning rapidly, the pylons et all were dropped off courtesy of an explosive bolt that held the pylon to the wing. Hope that helps. Rob. The armourer has left the room (uh- huh, thank you very much) (why is there no Elvis emoticon) Typical Plumber turns up late and disappears early Thanks for the clarification. Duncan B 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Duncan B said: Typical Plumber turns up late and disappears early Thanks for the clarification. Duncan B Got to make up for all those years of first in last out!! I blame the time difference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Phone Phixer said: Got to make up for all those years of first in last out!! Are you talking about the tea bar there? Lol. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roym Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Someone mentioned photo interpreting.... I've been doing a lot and it's left me with some questions.... I've been looking at lots of photos of 892NAS FG.1s and some other RAF FG.1s and FGR.2s. See my other thread on trying to I.D. 013/R in 1975/76. What I've noticed is that the placement, style and size of the nose numbers varied a lot. Also, there appears to be some evidence that underwing serials were sometimes painted in a thinner stroke than otherwise usual (like the old matchbox '76 issue kit decal sheet). Also I think the FG.1 nose gear seems to lean back slightly whereas the FGR2 seems more vertical. Or is it just me? Were nosewheels always white or were some natural metal? The extended leading edge slats don't have a red painted inner section like other aircraft but I can't make out if they are EDSG or dark dull metal. As the Airfix kit shows 007/R XT864 in '78 should it not also have the red/white/blue pennant markings on the nose? Mind you the matchbox 86/87 retool/reissue didn't either and they were generally good on references. I know XT864 was 007/R in 77/78 but was it still 007 when it flew into St Athan with "FLY NAVY" instead of "ROYAL NAVY"? Thanks for reading.... Edited January 29, 2018 by roym Typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, roym said: Also I think the FG.1 nose gear seems to lean back slightly whereas the FGR2 seems more vertical. Or is it just me? Were nosewheels always white or were some natural metal? The extended leading edge slats don't have a red painted inner section like other aircraft but I can't make out if they are EDSG or dark dull metal. As the Airfix kit shows 007/R XT864 in '78 should it not also have the red/white/blue pennant markings on the nose? Mind you the matchbox 86/87 retool/reissue didn't either and they were generally good on references. I know XT684 was 007/R in 77/78 but was it still 007 when it flew into St Athan with "FLY NAVY" instead of "ROYAL NAVY"? The fuselage code numbers did vary in style for sure. The FG.1 nose leg is raked back by 3 degrees, haven't got references to hand but I think the FGR.2 leg was straight, but I'm sure someone else here can confirm. I've only ever seen white nose wheels, but there always seems to be an exception! The exposed inner part of the leading edge flaps when they were deployed were a silver/natural metal colour (possibly coroguard?), but the vertical edges were generally red. XT684 was 'R-007' with 'Fly Navy' when it arrived at St Athan in Nov '78, it had the red white blue nose flash with the unit crest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, 71chally said: The fuselage code numbers did vary in style for sure. The FG.1 nose leg is raked back by 3 degrees, haven't got references to hand but I think the FGR.2 leg was straight, but I'm sure someone else here can confirm. I've only ever seen white nose wheels, but there always seems to be an exception! The exposed inner part of the leading edge flaps when they were deployed were a silver/natural metal colour (possibly coroguard?), but the vertical edges were generally red. XT684 was 'R-007' with 'Fly Navy' when it arrived at St Athan in Nov '78, it had the red white blue nose flash with the unit crest. 71chally is correct again The fuselage numbers did indeed vary in style but all were, on average, the same size. Why the style difference I never found out. The leg did rake back on the FG.1, this was so that when the added extension was put on for cat launch, the nose wheels were still in trail. I posted this some time back - time for a repeat :- The exposed inner part of the leading edges and the rear flaps when in launch/landing mode was made from titanium as a counter point to the heat from the BLC. Nose and Main wheels were always White. The Airfix kit shows XT864 as she was in 1975 not '78. I am currently corresponding with Simon Owen of Airfix so I'll ask if updated decals can be provided at a later date. As I said earlier, he and his team were in all probability not around when the Phantom was with the Navy. Yes '007' had "Fly Navy" on the stbd rear fuselage on arrival at St Athan but I have yet to find a photo showing it on the port side. HTH Dennis 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 32 minutes ago, 71chally said: XT684 was 'R-007' with 'Fly Navy' when it arrived at St Athan in Nov '78, it had the red white blue nose flash with the unit crest. I'm sure I've got serial dyslexia, mind you blame the last line of the previous post! Should be XT864 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roym Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Me too... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 There's 31 pages of Phantomry in here : https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/538685-phantom-friday.html Slightly off topic as it's not all British and includes some very nice photos. Here's a taster... a German one at a Leuchars airshow 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booty003 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The very first photo in the link above almost made me drool.....!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 An interesting short read: http://www.westair.uk.com/david-hamilton-carrier_pilot/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Anybody seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYy50hVf2s Some nice footage of Phantoms preceded by Gnats, JP and Chippies! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) On 1/29/2018 at 5:51 PM, roym said: Someone mentioned photo interpreting.... I've been doing a lot and it's left me with some questions.... I've been looking at lots of photos of 892NAS FG.1s and some other RAF FG.1s and FGR.2s. See my other thread on trying to I.D. 013/R in 1975/76. What I've noticed is that the placement, style and size of the nose numbers varied a lot. Also, there appears to be some evidence that underwing serials were sometimes painted in a thinner stroke than otherwise usual (like the old matchbox '76 issue kit decal sheet). Also I think the FG.1 nose gear seems to lean back slightly whereas the FGR2 seems more vertical. Or is it just me? Were nosewheels always white or were some natural metal? The extended leading edge slats don't have a red painted inner section like other aircraft but I can't make out if they are EDSG or dark dull metal. As the Airfix kit shows 007/R XT864 in '78 should it not also have the red/white/blue pennant markings on the nose? Mind you the matchbox 86/87 retool/reissue didn't either and they were generally good on references. I know XT864 was 007/R in 77/78 but was it still 007 when it flew into St Athan with "FLY NAVY" instead of "ROYAL NAVY"? Thanks for reading.... A bit of a note on colours Edited February 1, 2018 by canberra kid 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Fascinating paint guide, thank you John. I take it that the general airframe finishing scheme is for RAF jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, 71chally said: Fascinating paint guide, thank you John. I take it that the general airframe finishing scheme is for RAF jets? It is James, the document is AP 101B-0900-1B Pantom FG Mk.1 and FGR Mk.2 Aircraft Aircraft Servicing Manual Corrosion Control and Decontamination John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Thanks John, actually I just looked back through the thread and see it is related to your earlier posted diagrams! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 On 1/29/2018 at 10:36 PM, Scimitar said: There's 31 pages of Phantomry in here : https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/538685-phantom-friday.html Slightly off topic as it's not all British and includes some very nice photos. Here's a taster... a German one at a Leuchars airshow Was that taken at Leuchars? Spooky (pardon the pun) but that was the image I used on my first Business card. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, Duncan B said: Was that taken at Leuchars It was at an annual airshow according to the original photo caption. Can't remember which year. Whenever it was I missed it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 This might have been mentioned already, have Airfix provided an option to have the speed brakes open? The speed brakes would start to drop under their own weight the moment hydraulic power was removed so it was a very rare sight to see a Phantom with closed speed brakes while on the ground powered down. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Duncan B said: This might have been mentioned already, have Airfix provided an option to have the speed brakes open? The speed brakes would start to drop under their own weight the moment hydraulic power was removed so it was a very rare sight to see a Phantom with closed speed brakes while on the ground powered down. Duncan B Yes it does, see my current project. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Rhino said: Yes it does, see my current project. Thanks, I’m not sure how I missed that Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 On XV424 at Hendon it has the chaff/flare dispensers fitted on the sidewinder pylons. Can anyone tell me if this fit was standard as I do not remember seeing them before. Thanks Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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