Dave Fleming Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 FG1 dish mount from same thread on British F4 Phantom group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 9 hours ago, iainpeden said: So we have a bit of a timelie for XT863. Apparently delivered in grey to 111 in April '80 - presumably having had the ILS fitted (was the RWR already in place with the RN?), looks really scruffy (and with the black radome) in May '83 and freshly painted for IAT in July '83. For me the next qustions are where did the repaint happen and why XT863 when XV571/A seemed to become the CO's a/c? The repaint took place in the Ark Royal hangar at RAF Leuchars, Dennis Robinson (Sloegin of this Parish) was in charge of it and has previously posted some photos on here IIRC (or he might have just sent them to me?). I must admit that my memory had XT863 being in DK Green/DSG before the repaint but I do remember her sitting in primer with the roundels and markings already painted and masked off waiting for permission from Strike Command to paint her black, that permission never came so air defence scheme it was. Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06/24 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Duncan B said: ...waiting for permission from Strike Command to paint her black, that permission never came so air defence scheme it was. Duncan B What was it with you guys and black airplanes? Anyone would think they looked cool or something! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 That's because they do! Excellent info Duncan! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkeEins Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 12 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: Airfix has modelled the 'radar out' option as fitted to the FGR2 colour shot - this is a 'J' of course - ZE 363 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Bunker Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Following Rabbit Leader's list of Xtradecals, here's a list of the currently available Modeldecal sheets from big H. 2 767 Sqn RN EDSG/White 37 FGR.2 XV470/H or W 2 Sqn Laarbruch 1971-73 Grey/Green FGR.2 XV470/C 56 Sqn Coningsby 1976 Grey/Green 64 FG.1 43 Sqn Three Greys FGR.2 19 Sqn Three Greys FGR.2 23 Sqn Three Greys FGR.2 56 Sqn Three Greys FGR.2 92 Sqn Grey/Green 65 FG.1 XV589/P 111 Sqn Three Greys FGR.2 XV439/A 19 Sqn Wildenrath Silver Jubilee review 1977 Three Greys FGR.2 XV434/J 23 Sqn Three Greys FGR.2 XV419/G 29 Sqn Conningsby 1981 Three Greys FGR.2 XT909/K 64 Sqn (228 OCU) Conningsby 1981 Three Greys FGR.2 XV422/O 92 Sqn Wildenrath 1981 Grey/Green 73 FGR.2 XV501/B 23 Sqn Greenham Common 1983 Three Greys FGR.2 XV464/B 23 Sqn Falklands 1983 Three Greys FGR.2 XV406/D 29 Sqn Conningsby Three Greys FGR.2 XT901/Y 56 Sqn Wattisham Three Greys 89 FG.1 XV571/A 43 Sqn in 70th Anniversary schemes 1986 Three Greys FGR.2 XT900/CO or XV393/CA 228 Sqn/64 OCU 1987 Three Greys 90 FG.1 XV574/Z 111 Sqn 1985/87 with black spine and fin, two versions Three Greys 94 FGR.2 Phantom XV492/Q 9 Sqn Conningsby 1974 Grey/Green FGR.2 XV432/N 6 Sqn Conningsby 1969 Grey/Green FGR.2 XV432/H 14 Sqn RAF Bruggen 1974 Grey/Green FGR.2 XV462/462 17 Sqn RAF Bruggen 1974 Grey/Green FGR.2 XV422 and XV431 31 Sqn RAF Bruggen 1974 Grey/Green 95 FGR.2 Phantom XV428/CC 228 OCU Leuchars 1988 Display scheme Three Greys 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Arnold Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Hi Phil ans All Just found a Matchbox Phantom in my stash and I have measured the EMI pod and it is 110 mm long 15 mm in both height and wide So it looks as if Airfix has the right sized pod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Duncan B said: I must admit that my memory had XT863 being in DK Green/DSG That's two of us with memory issues then! James' post makes that nigh impossible though and it must have been that black nose hat made me think so. Great info appearing here 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, Scimitar said: That's two of us with memory issues then! James' post makes that nigh impossible though and it must have been that black nose hat made me think so. Great info appearing here I've obviously run 2 separate painting events into one in my mind as I do remember a Dk Green/DSG aircraft getting rubbed back for repainting and revealing the red fin of 892 Sqn underneath which I have later convinced myself was XT863 (but clearly wasn't, and I'm not even sure if G was ex-FAA as I've never checked). The reason I thought it was though was it wasn't common for aircraft to be repainted at our level as I remember it, they were mostly done at St Athans during majors. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Duncan B said: I'm not even sure if G was ex-FAA She sure was. Here she is with her first Squadron 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Duncan B said: (but clearly wasn't, and I'm not even sure if G was ex-FAA as I've never checked) That's what I was saying in an earlier post, XT863 was flown off Ark Royal as 'R 014' and delivered to Saints on 27 Nov 1978. It then went under a period of service and repaint (RAF-isation!) and as Iainpeden said it departing as an RAF jet in April '80. During it's time at Saints the air defence grey scheme had been introduced. It was pictured in May '83 in grey (and looking quite tatty/worn). Could it be that you remember it getting a second repaint, possibly early summer '83, Duncan? I only ask because it looked positively sparkling for that years air show appearances. XT893s many colours, https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/XT863 Edited January 16, 2018 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 There’s a bit of a modelling project there, including as a bdr airframe. If you go back to the scruffy in flight photo it looks to me as if the barley grey has worn unevenly and almost looks like a two tone finish possibly leading to the memories of a grey/green finish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, 71chally said: Could it be that you remember it getting a second repaint, possibly early summer '83, Duncan? I only ask because it looked positively sparkling for that years air show appearances. XT893s many colours, https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/XT863 XT863 "G" of 111 sqn was definitely stripped back, primed and repainted in the Ark Royal hangar in Spring '83 as I said earlier. Somewhere I have a copy of a photo that Dennis Robinson took of her during the repaint (I believe it was the last job he oversaw from Engineering before leaving the RAF) and I do remember seeing her primed with the markings masked off as I used to 'slope off' from ASF to go and check on progress (I was a modelling geek even back then!). The other aircraft that I remember being painted at Leuchars was in DSG/DG and was repainted in ASF. I have no idea which one it was but it was ex 892 due to the fin marking still being in place under the RAF camo (which I thought was very exciting but also strange at the time that it hadn't been stripped back to bare metal before the RAF repaint. I guess that St A's didn't actually strip them right back before over-painting them?). I hope that clears my previous post up? Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Yeah I absolutely get what you are saying, what I'm asking is did you possibly see it getting it's second set of grey, the grey that we see in the summer '83 air show shots? Given that it was already in a tatty grey finish in May '83. I'm a historian here at St Athan, and there a few Phantom pics in the archive. Saints generally stripped the jets to bare metal, and then repainted, but I wouldn't know if every aircraft was done that way. You would think that a carrier based aircraft would be stripped right back, just for skin corrosion checks. Great to here this stuff from first hand sources. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 71chally said: Disregard! Edited January 16, 2018 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Talking of Saints and Phantom special schemes, this is my favourite after Black Mike. At this stage there was only one very tiny difference that gave away which jet was which. Alcock and Brown by Paul, on Flickr Paul - Flickr Later XV486 had '486' added to nose gear door to differentiate it from XV424. Edited January 16, 2018 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, 71chally said: Yeah I absolutely get what you are saying, what I'm asking is did you possibly see it getting it's second set of grey, the grey that we see in the summer '83 air show shots? Given that it was already in a tatty grey finish in May '83. I'm a historian here at St Athan, and there a few Phantom pics in the archive. Saints generally stripped the jets to bare metal, and then repainted, but I wouldn't know if every aircraft was done that way. You would think that a carrier based aircraft would be stripped right back, just for skin corrosion checks. Great to here this stuff from first hand sources. Yes, 'G' was getting it's second coat of grey for RIAT. It got a total repaint for the show and wore that scheme until it's demise I would think. I was surprised to see the red fin appear as the painters sanded back the DG/DSG on that other aircraft. The complete 892 Omega was present and I got a real thrill from seeing it again. I wonder what the story was there, did the painters at St. A's leave it on purpose or was it possibly painted elsewhere? I guess we'll never know the answer to that one. I have just checked back through the e mails I have from Dennis but can't find the photo of 'G' getting it's repaint (did find the photos of 111's 'J' with the ILS aerials but no RWR fin-cap, including photos of it on Q like that!). I wonder if the photo of 'G' was posted on a thread on here somewhere, will have to have a dig. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertF Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, 71chally said: At this stage there was only one very tiny difference that gave away which jet was which. The antenna layout on the top of the fin? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Got carried away there, no sorry not the fin Edited January 16, 2018 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On the spine. There does look like an extra 'blob' above the tail light on the fin though, is that a trick of the light? Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Yesterday I was reading a list on an internet site which gave an easy readable (spreadsheet) history of every British Phantom. Now I can't find it. I was wondering how many Airfix phantoms I would need if I was to build only XT863 in all her guises let alone the others,but I'm not that committed. Richard (did I say I needed 21 Scimitars at last count?) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertF Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Duncan B said: There does look like an extra 'blob' above the tail light on the fin That's what I thought 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertF Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 And the top of the fin looks to be a bit more rounded on the left plane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) That blob on the fin (above the rudder) is the Welsh flag, it appeared on the port side only of both Phantoms. The fins are identical. Duncan knows, don't give it away though! Edited January 16, 2018 by 71chally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertF Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Well, I give up. It must be a difference only a true Phantom Phanatic can spot and I'm afraid I'm not one of those... But I am curious now! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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