HobbyBoss 1/72 P-61 Black Widow

[billn53]

After my last build (SR-71 Blackbird, see here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235030457-gentlemen-start-your-engines-academy-sr-71a-blackbird-172/ ) I had hoped to finish off the year with Academy's 1/72 F-4J Phantom II, but I am still waiting on some aftermarket detail parts to arrive. So as an interim project, I have this project instead:

 

 

Hopefully, being a 'quick build' I will be able to get this done promptly. All I need to do is control my appetite for adding extraneous detail LOL!

 

Having just finished an all-black aircraft, I just don't feel up to another one, so this Black Widow will be in green garb, instead. I'm hoping to replicate the weathering seen in this photo:

 

 

The specific paint scheme I'm looking at doing is "Borrowed Time", which was stationed in England to intercept German V-1 buzz-bombs:

 

 

This is the kit's parts breakdown:

 

 

and my progress after a couple of evenings' work:

 

Pilot and Gunner's positions:

 

Cockpit IP and sidewalls:

 

 

and the Radar Operator's office in the rear (work in progress):

 

My office is closed between the holidays (today was the last day of work) so I hope to finish this build quickly and begin my Phantom by New Year's.

 

[billn53]

Radar operator's position mostly finished and installed, just a bit of paint touchup to still do:

 

 

This plane could be a tail-sitter if I'm not careful. The instructions call for 60 grams (2 oz) in the nose and engine nacelles. I'll add a bit more to be safe. This product is a dense putty-like material used for fishing tackle and Pinewood Derby cars. I managed to squeeze 3 gms in the tiny space forward of the instrument panel.

 

 

I really like how the wing and fuselage are all molded together, it should make proper alignment of the pylons a snap (always a challenge with fork-tailed aircraft). It's a good thing I invested in a bunch of clamps, though! This kit is well engineered and the pieces fit together very tightly (so tight that even a thin layer of paint can be an issue). The only fit issue so far is a small gap along the wing leading edge where it meets the fuselage.

 

 

 

 

[Thud4444]

I love Hobby Boss kits! Did the cockpit come that detailed?

[billn53]

Yes, everything so far is OOB. I've only added masking tape seat belts and my own decal for the instrument panel (the kit comes with an IP decal but I preferred to make my own from a photo)

[hairystick]

On 12/21/2017 at 6:47 PM, billn53 said:

This plane could be a tail-sitter if I'm not careful. The instructions call for 60 grams (2 oz) in the nose and engine nacelles. I'll add a bit more to be safe.

Ohhhh' yes indeed!

Having completed the monogram kit a year back, I filled the entire nose (long nose version) with lead and that was just sufficient to do the job.

 

The colour scheme that you are doing is quite interesting and will be a nice difference from all the black P-61's modeled. This kits looks rather well engineered so I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

[billn53]

Well engineered, yes. However one thing I'm not fond of is that the main landing gear must be installed when the pylons are built. That's an accident waiting to happen...

[Courageous]

A very nice start. I thought that HobbyBoss made pretty basic kits but your kit is coming up well.

[Winenut]

Awesome!

 

A green widow!........... and it's 1/72 

 

I have  been hankering for a 1/72 P-61 so watching this HBoss build will just be brilliant.

 

Great start....... all the best for the rest  

 

I'm ready with the popcorn   

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[Killingholme]

Looks like a really nice compromise between the 'throw together in a night' easy build range and more conventionally detailed model kits. Will have to be getting myself one of those!

 

Nice marking choice by the way. Look forward to seeing the weathering effects!

 

Will

 

[72modeler]

I've been waiting for a better Black Widow in 1/72 for a long time- the HB kit looks like it's much better than the Dragon, Airfix, and Frog kits. I am waiting for the P-61B and P-61C releases that are coming after this one. One issue that bothers me, from the appearance of the photos Billn53 posted, is the contour of the upper fuselage between the rear of the cockpit canopy and the radar operator's canopy. It should have a tapered and curved edge from front to back, not a parallel straight  surface as the kit suggests. I don't think any of the kits I listed above have gotten this correct, either. There was no difference in this part of the fuselage, even when the dorsal turret was not fitted, as was the  case in many of the P-61A's. In the link to the plan view drawing I have attached below, you can see the curved surface as a faint line, and also in the production line photo. I am  doubtful HB will mold a different upper fuselage/wing for their B and C. Not a deal breaker, to be sure, but a pain to correct so the curvature on both sides is identical. The Widow is such a beautiful airplane, I want to get it right!

Mike

 

http://napoleon130.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/p61w11w1.jpg

 

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=HUI9WvOjJMO-mwG5wLboCw&q=P-61+Black+Widow+production+line&oq=P-61+Black+Widow+production+line&gs_l=psy-ab.12...968741.977201.0.979572.40.27.12.0.0.0.166.2601.17j9.26.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.1.144...0j0i67k1j0i30k1.0.B3oRoEoMTDk#imgrc=1zPpyFhxVqIxKM:&spf=1513965064540 

 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/d1ce231d-79f9-44b8-af12-17b40d8048eb.jpeg

Edited December 22, 2017 by 72modeler
added additional photo link

[stevehnz]

I think  see what you mean Mike, though I think the components shot that Bill has posted contains a small amount of distortion & isn't a true plan view. either ways, I won't let that put me off, I'm keen to do a 422 NFS  from late 1944 (Ardennes campaign)

Steve.

[funguseater]

Looking great so far. Liking the green colour scheme. I will be interested to see how the Hataka paints go. I just had bad experience with their late U.S. navy paint set on a hasegawa 1/72 Hellcat. Used Ultimate thinners and the finish wasn't perfect. Will stick with Vallejo and AK real colours (aircraft colours hopefully being released next year).

 

Any tips on thinning the Hataka paint. I don't want to write them off !

[billn53]

@ Mike -- Unfortunately, I don't have any good news for you. The HobbyBoss fuselage does indeed bulge where the turret would go. But, the radius of curvature for the transition between horizontal top and vertical sides is pretty much constant, quite unlike what I see in the factory pic you posted.

 

 

Compare to:

 

 

Concerning the Hataka paints -- I used their USAF SEA set on an F-105 earlier this year, and had no great problems with them. If I recall correctly, I used Mr Color thinners. I was looking at the Vallejo Real Colors earlier today, and as you implied they only have armor colors so far. Hope they do put out aircraft colors soon.

 

Today's progress:

 

Pylons assembled, complete with landing gear (grrrr...), and ready to install:

 

 

Other odds and ends ready for paint:

 

 

My biggest problem has been the fit of the forward fuselage on the right hand side. After gluing and clamping everything together, I found a nasty step between the upper and lower halves. This is most certainly my error, not anything with the kit. Nonetheless, I had to break out my Perfect Plastic Putty.

 

 

HobbyBoss has given us a very tight fit nearly everywhere on this model (almost too tight). Except for a couple of places, so far all I've needed to do is give the joins a brush of Mr Surfacer 500, followed by a light wet sanding using a fine sanding stick. 

 

Till next time!

 

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by billn53

[billn53]

So far, this build is moving along pretty quickly, as I had hoped.

 

Glued the pylons into place. I had to do this in stages, first at the rear with a hefty clamp, then (after the glue had set), the same for the forward end.

 

 

I knew it would be a while before I could safely unclamp the pylons, so I moved on to a few other items. First, I researched photos of the twin Wasp engine and painted up the model's (rather lacking) representation of the front end:

 

 

Next, I filled the aircraft's nose with lead shot and fixed it in place using my tungsten putty. That gave me 14 grams, in addition to the 3 grams I added earlier forward of the instrument panel.

 

 

There's room in each engine nacelle for another 15 grams of lead shot, should it be needed.

 

 

But, miracle of miracles, it looks like the nose weight will be enough! (I'll add a bit to the engine nacelles just to be sure.) This is finally starting to look like an airplane!

 

 

After a few days and evenings of effort on my Black Widow, my work bench is getting pretty cluttered. This is probably a good point to tidy it up.

 

 

 

 

 

[72modeler]

bill,

 

What you've done so far looks pretty darned good! Hope the kit undercart can stand all that nose weight, but there is so much structure aft of the main gear struts, you don't have much choice. The wheel bays look like they are boxed in fairly well; will have to wait for the B model to check them out against photos.(Although the B's and subsequent variants had the main doors closed, with only the strut fairing door being open when the gear was extended, so the wheel bays will be hidden.) BTW- if you go to the Mid Atlantic Air Museum website, you can see hundreds of detail photos of the P-61B that they are restoring to flight- most of the details will be correct for an A model. I was afraid that HB had missed the upper fuselage contours, as shown in your post photos, and unlikely to be corrected in subsequent releases. I am thinking I could make a paper template with the correct curves, rubber cement it to the fuselage and use it as a guide to sand until the correct contour can be attained- that is if there is enough plastic for the attempt. How do the props and spinners look? The Lady in Dark is looking pretty, sir!

Mike

 

http://www.maam.org/p61.html

[billn53]

Mike - Concerning the fuselage contour, the main issue as I see it is the curvature transition to the fuselage side isn't sharp enough in the region where the turret would go. My suggestion is to glue a thin plastic template to the fuselage top, and fill in the edges with putty until the correct curvature is achieved. As to your question on spinner & props -- unhappily they are molded as a single unit (no separate spinner). That could definitely be improved upon.

 

Well, my workbench has been cleaned up and I'm back at work. But first, some pics of the specific aircraft I'm modeling:

 

 

 

 

 

At the time of D-day, Borrowed Time had a white nose and full invasion stripes (as seen in the first two photos above). Some time afterward, the upper parts of the invasion stripes must have been painted over (if EalgleCal's profile is correct). Eventually, the yellow nose with sharkmouth was added. My inclination is to model the white-nosed version with partial invasion stripes, per the EagleCal decals.

 

by 

 

Let's see, where was I? Oh yes, my build progress! Borrowed Time was a P-61A-5-NO. That version, as far as I can determine, had not yet been equipped to carry drop tanks or bombs. The Hobby Boss kit, however, has both, with mounting locations on either side of each engine. These will have to go!

 

A few minutes of careful scraping with a small hobby knife brings the mounting locations flush with the wing surface:

 

 

and plastic stock fills in the mounting holes:

 

 

Engines have been weathered and installed in their nacelles:

 

 

and 7 grams of lead added to each to make this a convincing nose-sitter:

 

 

Finally, a few tips. If you're thinking of doing this kit, here are a few things to beware of:

 

First, don't blindly follow the instruction's build sequence. I did, and the gunner's optical sight was a victim. I should have waited until just before closing up the cockpit to install this item:

 

 

Fortunately, it broke at the attachment point, and I was able to find both pieces (score so far: Me: 1, Floor: 0).

 

Also, being an "easy assembly" kit, some items are molded in that would have been better as separate pieces. This probe on the nose, for example, has been taking a bad beating:

 

 

And I'll be lucky if the antennae on the bottom of the engine pylons survive to the end:

 

 

I could have fixed the above with my hobby knife and some improvised parts, but I'm trying my best to keep this a quick and easy, out-of-the-box build.

Edited December 23, 2017 by billn53

[72modeler]

bill,

 

Wow! You are really making progress! I was able to get to my unbuilt kits and pulled down my Frog, Airfix, and DML/Dragon P-61A and B kits. Amazingly, all three have the curvature and contour of the upper fuselage pretty close to the factory shot that I posted, with the Frog kit being the closest to the real thing- way to go, Frog! If I knew how to post photos, I would lay out all three for the world to see. The problem, at least to these old Mk 1a eyeballs, is that the upper fuselage between the front and back transparencies of the kit  is completely flat- if you look at the radar operator's position in the factory photo and compare it to your photo of the same section on the model, you can see how curved the fuselage is from the top edge down to the sill as compared to the flat top and squared off sides of the kit. It also seems to me that it's not a matter of the upper profile of the kit fuselage not  being sharp enough- it's actually too sharp and should be curved from the top to the sides. When you look at the factory photo, you can see how the upper fuselage contour swells from the rear to the front so that there is room for the turret assembly at the widest point of the curve. What it looks like to me that HB has done is make the upper fuselage sides perfectly straight and parallel, when it should flare out in width between the two stations.

 

Not having the kit, I can't tell how HB is going to cater to the turret and the 8 inch longer nose of the B and C models; a new upper fuselage/wing casting could accommodate the turret assembly and proper curvature to the upper fuselage, and a separate nose section would take care of the longer nose of the later version- I guess we will have to wait and see. After I actually get the P-61B release in my hands, I guess I will know more- worst case scenario, I can remove the top section on the HB fuselage and use the same section from my Airfix or Frog kits. (I have two Airfix kits, so no problem! I hate to trash the Frog kit, as it has a lot of memories of when Frog was THE kit-maker!)

Mike

 

BTW, I really like the scheme you've chosen!

Edited December 24, 2017 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[dogsbody]

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

bill,

 

Wow! You are really making progress! I was able to get to my unbuilt kits and pulled down my Frog, Airfix, and DML/Dragon P-61A and B kits. Amazingly, all three have the curvature and contour of the upper fuselage pretty close to the factory shot that I posted, with the Frog kit being the closest to the real thing- way to go, Frog! If I knew how to post photos, I would lay out all three for the world to see. The problem, at least to these old Mk 1a eyeballs, is that the upper fuselage between the front and back transparencies of the kit  is completely flat- if you look at the radar operator's position in the factory photo and compare it to your photo of the same section on the model, you can see how curved the fuselage is from the top edge down to the sill as compared to the flat top and squared off sides of the kit. It also seems to me that it's not a matter of the upper profile of the kit fuselage not  being sharp enough- it's actually too sharp and should be curved from the top to the sides. When you look at the factory photo, you can see how the upper fuselage contour swells from the rear to the front so that there is room for the turret assembly at the widest point of the curve. What it looks like to me that HB has done is make the upper fuselage sides perfectly straight and parallel, when it should flare out in width between the two stations.

 

Not having the kit, I can't tell how HB is going to cater to the turret and the 8 inch longer nose of the B and C models; a new upper fuselage/wing casting could accommodate the turret assembly and proper curvature to the upper fuselage, and a separate nose section would take care of the longer nose of the later version- I guess we will have to wait and see. After I actually get the P-61B release in my hands, I guess I will know more- worst cased scenario, I can remove the top section on the HB fuselage and use the same section from my Airfix or Frog kits. (I have two Airfix kits, so no problem!)

Mike

 

BTW, I really like the scheme you've chosen!

 The FROG kit.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

Edited December 24, 2017 by dogsbody
Resize image

[Bigdave22014]

14 hours ago, billn53 said:

After a few days and evenings of effort on my Black Widow, my work bench is getting pretty cluttered. This is probably a good point to tidy it up.

Bah! Loads of room left. Call yourself a modeller? You should be able to work in a space the size of a postage stamp! (well, that's how my bench ends up anyway )

 

Always thought the guns on the roof look odd. Still, they built plenty of them so the design must have worked..

[neil5208]

Looking good, it appears to be a large aircraft could you do a comparison shot with another model?

[billn53]

@ Neil: You are right, this is a big airplane. Here it is beside what is commonly thought of as a 'large' fighter, the P-47:

 

 

@ BigDave: The turret in fact did cause problems, especially with elevator flutter at speed. That is one reason the turret wasn't installed in early P-61s. Even after a design solution was implemented, it was still problematic. 

 

Not much to show today. I'm at the point where I must finish off the interior and add the clear parts, which must be done before I can begin painting. Unfortunately, due to poor planning on my part, the clear parts aren't ready. Although the clear parts, as provided, are very clear, the glazing for the radar operator's position had a small seam running down the center, which I had to carefully cleanup. That led to sanding with finer and finer grades of sandpaper, then repeated applications of polishing compound until all traces of the seam were gone. Here's the final result:

 

 

But wait, there's still more to be done! I next dipped the parts in clear acrylic and have set them aside in a dustproof box for the acrylic to completely dry. Then, I'll need to mask off the canopy framing, which on this aircraft will be a big job. Bottom line is, it looks like I won't be doing any painting for a while.

 

 While waiting for the clear acrylic to dry, I took some time to clean out panel lines that had become clogged with gunk, then gave the aircraft a rub down with denatured alcohol. 

 

As predicted, the under-boom antennae didn't survive :-(

 

 

I'll sign off for now by wishing everyone a very merry Christmas!

 

[stevehnz]

Looking good Bill, the turret area apart, I like what I'm seeing of this.  Merry Christmas to you & yours.

Steve.

[billn53]

I hope everyone had a great Christmas, and may New Year be good to you all!

 

Here's where I am at noon on Boxing Day:

 

I began masking the canopies yesterday morning, primarily using Tamiya tape but I also employed a new (for me) material, Parafilm M, for the areas with difficult compound curves. Parafilm M is a thin plastic film that can be stretched tightly over the canopy, then carefully cut away using a very sharp blade. Here it is on the front panels of the P-61's forward canopy:

 

 

Here's the forward canopy completely masked and glued in place. Perfect fit!

 

 

And this is the radar operator's canopy. The fit here is close to, but not entirely perfect. I have a couple of small gaps to fill, such as the vertical join just aft of the wing:

 

 

Nearly ready to paint! Engine cowls have been added. All I need to do is mask off the wheel wells, engine cowl openings, etc. and then it will be primer time.

 

 

Speaking of engine cowls, Hobby Boss molded the cowl flaps in the fully closed position, and the panel lines between individual flaps was very faint. So I my trusty scriber came out to rectify this issue:

 

 

Lastly, I assembled, painted, and weathered the wheels and tires. Here's the result:

 

 

When I next post, painting should be well underway. Wish me luck!

[Thom216]

Looking the part!

[billn53]

I have a question which I hope someone can help answer. But first, my latest update.

 

As promised, painting has begun. First, I sprayed the canopy framework with zinc chromate green

 

 

and then, primed the entire aircraft with Stynylrez black acrylic. So, this Black Widow is indeed black, if only temporarily ;-)

 

 

My next task is to add the invasion stripes.

 

Here is my question: In photos, I see a large amount of paint chipping on black-painted P-61s. This chipping doesn't seem to be as common on the green painted aircraft. Am I wrong? The reason I ask is, if I need to add chipping effects then my next step should be to spray a layer of aluminum in the areas I want to have chipped, in preparation for the "hair spray" technique. Also, I presume weathering & chipping would be less on the invasion stripes, as they were painted long after the factory olive drab. Thoughts?

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by billn53