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Do Mission Models Luft and RAF paints match Merrick and RAF Museum charts ?


Merlin

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Hi,

Before committing to £5 per pot which is going to hit my bank balance pretty hard for even the basic Luftwaffe colour range along with RAF, with the hope of getting at last an accurate set of Luftwaffe colours as well as RAF, I need to know how the Mission Models paints Luftwaffe colours match Merricks two books please. 1938 dated chart especially., and the British Aviation Colours of WW II RAF Museum series Vol 3 book with the RAF colour chips in the back. Both of which I have.

I am interested in:-

RLM :

02 

04 

65 

70

71

74

75

76

 

and RAF:

Dk Green

Dk Earth

Sky

Medium Sea Grey

Night Black

Black

Roundel Red

Roundel Blue

Trainer Yellow

 

Cheers

Merlin

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I'm biased possibly as I sell Mission Models paint but I'm also a Luftwaffe modeller who likes things to be accurate. I have used the MMP RLM74, 75 and 76 and they seem to match the Kiroff charts I have very well. Also the RLM 76, for example, was indistinguishable when sprayed on top of Mr Paint RLM 76 which I think is a good match too.

Before I committed to buying the Mission Models range I did a bit of research and the Luftwaffe colours got rave reviews from an American blogger/Luftwaffe modeller/shop owner (who's name escapes me at the moment but I still have the link to his reviews saved somewhere). 

The rest of the RLM colours have just arrived with me but I haven't had a chance to try them out yet, should get the chance over the holidays though.

I have a deal on the MMP RLM 74, 75, 76 and a 60ml bottle of thinner/reducer for £19.95 plus £2.90 P&P on my eBay page, which I think is a good price, if you want more info PM me or email me.

 

Duncan B

 

p.s. the RRP for them is £5.95 each but I have the basic colours on at £5.35 each

 

p.p.s. John Miller, Model Paint Solutions, link to his review here: https://modelpaintsol.com/reviews/mission-models-paints-luftwaffe-rlm-colors

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Hi,

For me it has to be Merrick and nothing else ( I see Keiroff is assoc with Vol 1 and 2 which threw me a bit when you mentioned a name I wasnt aware of, so you mean the Merrick volumes 1 and 2...good choice !)

, and unless someone has some real hard evidence to disprove that research and chart production by Merrick (and Keiroff) and the effort involved in sourcing absolutely every accurate ingredient of the original formulation, it would be the standard to refer to for everyone. The colours I am interested in certainly match all research and surviving examples I have been privileged to view.

 

The article also refers to Merrick, but misses a golden chance and doesnt compare MMP to Merrick,

He says...The aim of this little project is to show the color and hue of the new Mission Models Luftwaffe colors relative to the same colors from other manufacturers.

 

I see no sense at all in seeing if MMP matches other manufacturers as they dont match Merrick thats for sure, pointless exercise as it would either show a match to another brand which has errors, but what use is that, or a difference, so then yet another colour range available to us but not necessarily of any use, unless one knows if it matches a known Luft chip chart and one believes in that chart.

 

<< I have used the MMP RLM74, 75 and 76 and they seem to match the Keiroff charts I have very well. >>

thats a good start, at least I could plump for those, but I do need to know about the others from someone.

 

Just no way can I plump for them without knowing what they match to, I understand now though the manufacturers didnt consider Merrick as worthy of matching to, no reason given though for shooting down what is 'the bible'. Puts great doubt in my mind over the range with that approach. With having bought so many different ranges all of which do their own interpretation I just cant carry on buying ranges and hoping someone might actually bring out a range matched to what has been considered an accurate chip research and creation exercise.

 

If you can paint out their colours on separate squares of plastic card and lay these onto the relevant colours on the Merrick charts, and photo them in daylight at midday, though at this time of the year even then it might be a bit yellowy a light, that would be of some guidance. Flashgun at 45degree to chart indoors otherwise but light fall off across them would be a issue. Establishing correct exposure is another variable. I dont think RGB can capture some of these colours accurately anyway, so a human eye analysis feedback is also essential. Matches comments on darkness hue saturation etc would be most useful.

 

Better still to get them to Cybermodeler to add to the charts there that compare ranges to Merrick would be most welcome. I get the feeling though that if they match its more luck than judgement if they ignored Merrick and even other charts.

 

They sound good for application but colour is vital as well. If they match then we have a wow factor, a range to follow at last.

 

How do these pre-thinned paints though brush out, thats a worry.

 

Merlin

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It's a bit like searching for the Holy Grail really. I have bought almost every range of Luftwaffe paints over the years (and still have most of them!). For absolute accuracy then you'll have to go to a specialist paint manufacturer, there is a Firm in Germany that produces colours to the RLM specification (with the caveat that they have to use modern pigments) but it's not cheap and is really designed for 1:1 scale warbirds.

I don't think there is a Company that researches their colours more than Sovereign Hobbies so you might want to have a look at their Colourcoats range of enamels. Jamie is a very approachable and knowledgable guy with a presence on BM.

 

Duncan B

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Hi,

Sovereign are ex WEM and as per a reply to another thread the experience I had with my first ever use of them put me off (they didnt dry tacky free after one day and 2nd brush application removed the first coat).

Sovereign are Enamels as such, so my quest for acrylics to try and get the advantages they offer is still a quest.

 

I will however get a tinlet of their 02 71 70 and 65 and re assess it. Enamels still after the world is trying to go Acrylic. I would though like to see the colours they have come up with, maybe some tweaking can make them accurate. Spending £100 though to find out is not easy on my wallet as its almost empty. If anyone has already assessed them against Merrick then please post here.

 

I just wish the manufacturers had a better approach to the actual colour matching but they dont match to a recognised accurate paint chip set, and for me thats Merrick/Kiroff as I can't see how one can better that. Why after all these years can no one do that ? Just declare the chart the colours match to. Its as if they are covering for a laziness of matching.

 

Merlin

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10 minutes ago, Merlin said:

Hi,

Sovereign are ex WEM and as per a reply to another thread the experience I had with my first ever use of them put me off (they didnt dry tacky free after one day and 2nd brush application removed the first coat).

Sovereign are Enamels as such, so my quest for acrylics to try and get the advantages they offer is still a quest.

 

I will however get a tinlet of their 02 71 70 and 65 and re assess it. Enamels still after the world is trying to go Acrylic. I would though like to see the colours they have come up with, maybe some tweaking can make them accurate. Spending £100 though to find out is not easy on my wallet as its almost empty. If anyone has already assessed them against Merrick then please post here.

 

I just wish the manufacturers had a better approach to the actual colour matching but they dont match to a recognised accurate paint chip set, and for me thats Merrick/Kiroff as I can't see how one can better that. Why after all these years can no one do that ? Just declare the chart the colours match to. Its as if they are covering for a laziness of matching.

 

Merlin

The WEM paint either couldn't have been properly mixed or the atmosphere was cold or damp it was left to cure in. There's no other reason for enamel not curing that I've ever encountered.

 

Anyway, Jürgen Kiroff's chips as published in the Merrick volumes are the references used for our WW2 Luftwaffe colours. They are exact matches (as should be expected!) :)

 

As others will tell you, I bought Colourcoats to keep my favourite enamels available. The whole "making it work as a business" was almost secondary. Like most I did sheepishly migrate to acrylics, hated almost all of them and indeed gave up modelling for a long time as a result of unpredictable acrylic paint performance and appalling surface finishes. Going back to enamels was the best thing I ever did and WEM's Colourcoats were the best I had used. Buying them wasn't a hard decision yo reach once I learned the whole thing was financially in reach.

 

I totally understand that enamels are not favoured by a lot of people, but I really believe in what we make and intend to keep them on the market until such times as some factor I can't control prevents me from doing so. :)

 

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Hi,

This sounds encouraging, exact matches to Merrick will do me nicely :-)...and a friend.

though it doesnt solve my quest for accurate acrylics. I will obtain from you some tinlets and test again.

 

Truly does your RLM65 match Merrick as everyone else have gone for the turquoisy hinted one that was in charts prior to Merrick. Ullman points to two variants of this. Undersurfaces could have a protective translucent layer added for chipping etc I read somewhere which might have introduced a slight colour variation and created the slight hint of turquoise look. I have a wartime panel where the pale slightly more turquoisy colour surface is abraded and shows the Merrick rlm65 through !

 

I have been told that Mr Colour self levelling thinners are the best thing to use in acrylics and also enamels. Have you tested this thinner as such. I up to now have only ever used the thinners the manufacturer sell, in the case of WEM though I probably used either Hannants triple refined or Humbrol.

 

I have also had Phoenix Precision paint and Hannants Xtracolor do that failure to dry without remaining tacky., and I have heard from others about Hannants tending to do that. Its all very off-putting as I simply want to paint and it work. My Hannants sample remained tacky for months. I do want enamels to brush out without feeling like coloured varnish, brush strokes to blend and be of a uniform density of pigment on the first application.

 

What thinners would you tell folk to use with Sovereign ?

 

Merlin

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Merrick and Kiroff as you know have chips for RLM65 before and after the 1941 reformulation to lacquer paint. The two shades are very subtly different but each is a country mile away from the strong torquoise shown on the Eagle Editions chips.

 

My Kiroff chips are away right now for QC whilst our formulations are being migrated to new equipment but this is an old picture from a year or two ago against the 1941 chip. Apologies about the poor quality image and dodgy lighting. The Kiroff chips are (again) being used as the target.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJ_XP5kHqdY4pJyWcH31q

 

The way it works is that a colour is shot with a spectrophotometer giving stored target CIELAB values and a calculated pigmentation formula. That is then made and a sample allowed to cure on a test card and measured. Often the calculated formula will need tweaked to match the target LAB values but once the sample measures the same as the target the adjusted formula is stored - so in short, if the Merrick and Kiroff chip is the target then that is what the Colourcoats will cure as. Usual caveats apply about film thickness versus undersurface colour etc but that shouldn't come as a surprise to modellers who use shading effects all the time :) Also, the lids are sprayed unprimed and rather quickly.

 

It used to be matched to Eagle Editions when it first came out long before I owned it, but it wad changed to match Merrick and Kiroff's research instead before my time. I would have done the same had it not already happened :)

 

wem_luft_color2.jpg

 

We don't test or endorse any third party branded thinners primarily because I can't control what's in it so don't want any blame if they change something and my paint doesn't work. Also, enamels are extremely flexible. They work after a fashion thinned with pretty much anything, but they work so much better with the right thinner.

 

We used cellulose thinner for spraying unprimed steel tin lids with masks and extraction.

 

For all modelling work, I use and recommend our proprietary naptha based thinner which is completely compatible with our paint meaning unused thinned Colourcoats can be safely returned to the tin. Painting gets very expensive when you have to dispose of unused paint!

 

Ours gives drying times close to those of cellulose (i.e. much faster than white spirit types) but without the stink of either and, helpfully, without melting styrene plastic like cellulose does.

 

IMAG3192_large.jpg?v=1483727027

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I can confirm that the Colourcoats RLM65 is a very good match to the Kiroff pre 1941 chip, as is the RLM70 and 71. I was lucky enough to get some samples from Jamie to trial a while back. I don't think Jamie had the thinners at the time so I used regular cellulose and the paints all dried very quickly. I did test with Mr Color thinners and it worked too.

As an aside, I could never get Xtracolour to dry either which was one of the reasons I switched to acrylics way back. No problems with Colourcoats drying times though.

 

IMG_1914_zpspcmsmlri-M.jpg

IMG_1924_zpslv198qqq-M.jpg

 

The usual caveats apply to observing colour photos on monitors etc and I'll include another about my application of the paints as I intentionally faded the RLM70 and 71 slightly but you will get the gist, I hope that helps.

 

Duncan B

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At the risk of being branded a shill I'd also recommend Sovereign without recommendation. They are even better than the old Humbrol authentics for coverage and consistency in my experience. A recent Panzer IV took one coat of Sovereign and six coats of modern Humbrol on another.

Drying time is very fast but they're workable until the last minute or so.

 

Regarding accuracy Jamie has reformulated paints as new information comes to light. Recently the Royal Navy colours. That, to me, is the sign of somebody who cares and so will get my money.

Remember that very often magazines and the like are given paint by manufacturers, sometimes the model isn't finished with what is claimed. I really struggle to see what people like about acrylic paint, in the car refinishing industry we generally loathe them.

 

That is a very nice Emil BTW.

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I'll add another (sadly unbought) voice to the clamour for Sovereign, and I've found they thin nicely with Gunze's self-levelling thinner and dry readily for me in the unpredictable Illinois weather.

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3 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I still like that Emil you built Duncan :)

Thanks Jamie but I felt I didn't do your paints justice. I was in too much of a rush and didn't get the fading quite the way I wanted (not due to any problem with the paints, all down to me).

 

Duncan B

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As I have said before, if you like enamel paint, and have ready access to it, get Colourcoats paint. I watch in envy as those in the UK, who can easily order whenever they like, constantly don't bother with it while those down here must hope and pray the single stockist, who might restock once a year, have the colours I need for any given job, often forcing me to use sub par options like Humbrol or Tamiya.

 

I usually brush these days, as I enjoy it more, but I still airbrush the odd difficult colour or scheme and Colourcoats is great for either.

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