SW The Last Jedi Spoiler/Discussion Thread

[Blastvader]

1 minute ago, Procopius said:

Uh, Rian Johnson previously wrote and directed the excellent film Brick, which I highly recommend. 

 

I knew about Brick (though I haven't seen it) but being released in less than 50 screens world wide is not exactly what I would consider a 'traditional' box office release, though I could have made that fact more clear in my original post.

 

And there's a big step between Sundance darling, and blockbuster seat filler.

 

3 minutes ago, Plasto said:

It’s Science Fiction that’s not constrained by the laws of physics as we know them. If you start apportioning our reality onto Starwars then all sorts of plot holes and nonsensical stuff will appear. 

See:

9 hours ago, Blastvader said:

But SW has never had consistency when it comes to its physics so it gets a pass.

 

[Plasto]

 

4 hours ago, Blastvader said:

 

And there's a big step between Sundance darling, and blockbuster seat filler.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2017/12/18/star-wars-last-jedi-triumphs-box-office-despite-fan-backlash/

 

looks to to be doing ok at the box office.... 

 

 

[upnorth]

I saw it this past Sunday and felt it wasn't so bad. One doesn't go to a Star Wars film for hard core sci-fi or deep thinking. If you go to them for that sort of thing, you deserve to be disappointed.

 

My likes and dislikes about the film:

 

Spoiler

Likes:

1: Adam Driver's portrayal of the the conflict between light and dark in Kylo Ren and how it's pulling him apart is enjoyable and convincing.

2: The scene where Kylo turns on Snoke and then Kylo and Rey work together in battle against Snoke's guards.

3: Both Kylo and Rey are much more developed as characters than in TFA.

4: Great ship and vehicle designs for the most part that fit in well with the existing SW universe.

5: Most of the comic relief was decent and well placed. The porgs worked well for that and clearly will not hijack the story like the Ewoks did.

6: The taking out Snoke's ship and several escorts with the jump to hyperspace/collision course attack.

7: The battle at Crait. A nice nod to the Battle of Hoth without being a rip off of it.

 

Dislikes:

1: Captain Phasma is still a very wasted character in relation to how she's been built up in advertising. The showdown between her and Finn was unsatisfying.

2: Poe Dameron in the role of a mutineer just doesn't fit what else we've seen of him. While he's certainly outspoken, seeing him mutiny was pushing things.

3: Anything to do with Admiral Holdo was just nonsense. If you're going to call someone "Admiral" put them in a military uniform so they look like one!

4: Luke being a bitter, old, self-pitying curmudgeon. I know the naive farm boy from Tatooine had to grow up, but Luke would never lose his optimism.

5: Leia using the force to pull herself back to the cruiser from the vacuum of space. Were to even start with that laughable scene....

6: The Finn and Rose sub plot seriously weakened and took away from the Finn character. He looked like he had something to him in TFA, he's rather meh here.

7: Admiral Ackbar deserved a better death for how important he was to latter aspects of the SW story.

 

On the fence:

1: Snoke was killed too early and too easily. However, I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him.

2: Casinos and places of ill repute have their place in SW, but the one in this film was way too posh. Places like Mos Eisley set the SW precedent for such places.

3: General Hux: I do like the intensity of the character, but I wish he was a bit more than just someone for Kylo to lock horns with.

 

 

As for comments in earlier posts about how Hayden Christiansen portrayed Anakin Skywalker; I am one who initially didn't like what he did with the character. However, if you look at the values that drive the Sith: power, self-interest and so forth; it's really not such a stretch to imagine that a young Sith apprentice would be that way until they had developed the discipline to hold those selfish impulses in and harness them somehow.

 

We saw similar in how Adam Driver portrayed Kylo Ren in TFA, intense and prone to tantrums. This time around, as conflicted as he is, he's clearly a more controlled and focused character.

[TallBlondJohn]

As a sci-fi fan rather than a SW fan I liked it. It was less black and white and sprang surprises - not very SW so I can see why the fan-boys struck back. Snoke's demise for instance - who saw that coming? And what was the last SW film to pull a big shock like that? It would be Empire... hmmm...

 

Maybe Snoke will be back, or perhaps it daring clears the table for something else in part IX - all out focus on Kylo and Rey. I also suspect there's more to come about her parents, or maybe that's another piece of SW predictability that has been broken.

 

Force Leia was a mistake, apparently some novel covered her Jedi training but I wasn't convinced. Grabbing onto a beam for dear life would have worked better. Perhaps she grabs Ackbar as he goes by but eventually has to let him go...

 

The whole slowest space chase in history had some issues. Hiding in a ring or asteroid field would have looked amazing but its been done before so I see why they had to try something else..

 

Luke's character made total sense to me. The extent of his disillusion conveyed how much has happened without showing it on screen. The whole simple black-white Sith/Jedi dichotomy seems to be being left behind and replaced with a much more complex philosophy. Hopefully that will be explored further (though with Abrams involved, probably not).

 

The Canto Bight section worked for me too, though it was too long. It showed how the rest of the Universe is meanwhile just getting on with life (and business). And the heroes fail - the whole code-breaker plot just got people killed in the end. Didn't progress the plot but was crucial to the theme of how each main character must learn from failure.

[Rumblestripe]

Enjoyed it.

 

The only slight irritation for me was the Leia thing. I find it amusing that the main criticism of TFA was how similar it was to New Hope but when this one deviated from the path of the original trilogy by killing Snoke in Part 2 that's bad...

 

Liked the new hardware on show. Will watch again and (no doubt) buy the Blu-ray.

 

Oh and it only cost me a fiver for my ticket and took a can of pop in rather than pay £2 for a bottle in the foyer and the service was so slow at the tills gave up on trying to buy popcorn, so cheap night out.

[Mick4350]

16 hours ago, Rumblestripe said:

 

 

Liked the new hardware on show. Will watch again and (no doubt) buy the Blu-ray.

I bought the new DK book Star Wars: The Last Jedi Incredible Cross-Sections and Supreme Leader Snoke's  vessel " The Supremacy " has a whopping great wingspan at 198630 feet ( 60km )and length of 43437 feet ( 13.3km ) and is crewed with 2 1/4 million personal.

[Kallisti]

Saw it yesterday evening and was pleasantly entertained, i don't over-analyse Star Wars - whats the point? It was an enjoyable movie and i ended up with some dust or something in my eye at the credits when they dedicated it to Carrie Fisher. Speaking of which, there was no resolution to Leia's fate so will that be in ep IX?

 

This movie started off feeling like an Empire rehash, then there was a bit of RotJ with the Snoke sequence then it went back to Empire for the end - I liked the trooper who tasted the white stuff and said "Hmm salt", just to emphasise the "difference".

 

So my interpretation of the final scenes are that the force is always there, there will always be force sensitive people and no matter what Luke or Kylo Ren say there will always be the conflict of light and dark sides.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Kallisti

[Despy]

I didn't like the new vehicles (except the A-wing which is a McQuarrie design)
I didn't like the humor attempt that didn't fit (IMHO) to general vibe of the movie

I didn't like story details (Snoke, family of Rey, Leia non-sense)

I didn't like the story

And I don't think that Luke that we (or should I say "I") know, would behave like that

I applause the decision of taking a new direction and daring a new story. But it ends there, I think it is poorly written even worsely executed

And I believe Rian Johnson should learn a thing or two on how to make a sequel from Villeneuve (after Blade Runner 2049) with keeping the essential and writing a fresh story

My hats off to people who liked it, but in my (all subjective) opinion, it is not a good movie at all

[The Chief Smeg]

Got to say I’m with you on every single point there Despy. I saw the ANH for my 8th birthday back in ‘77 and it made a huge impact, hell I even enjoyed the prequel trilogy, but not this  

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

That is possibly why there is an online petition or so ive read in other sources. To remove “The last Jedi” from the canon storyline. Supposedly a large number of fans agree with you Despy. Whats really sad is Disney signed a Three film Star wars trilogy with Rian johnson in late November or early December. The films are to be released starting a year after this trilogy and the third stand alone movie are done. So maybe may of 2021 or possibly December of that year ? 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Mike]

I stand by liking it with the exception of the leia/Statue of Liberty fly-by thing.  Even a tractor beam or Rey hauling her back in would have been preferable.  Also, why in Hades were the entire command team in one very easily destroyed blister on the surface like that?  The chase sequence was fairly taut, but the explanation that they're smaller, so faster didn't really hold water unless you just dismiss it out of hand like you're supposed to.

 

As to the bombs - given impetus by the launch racks, and maybe using magentism or some form of propulsion to hit their target once they're clear of the bomb bays?  you do have to ask why they sent only one boosted X-Wing though, although that section of the action was a blast until he took a hit in the rump

 

Still liked it though, and am smug to announce that I saw the other lightsaber being used before it happened.  IIRC we had a few looks at it during the scene, which is a good sign that something will be important later.  I'd have liked to have known a bit more about Snoke too, as the way Leia spoke about him to Han in TFA it implied they knew Snoke personally somehow.

 

The Canto Bight section had two functions from what I see.  It showed that arms dealers will sell to all sides in a conflict, just like they have back on planet earth.  This fact and the blatant wealth on display made Finn sit up and take rebellion more seriously, and on the way they picked up a crypto-guy that eventually led the FO to almost eradicate the Rebels, leaving only the guttering flame of rebellion flickering on Crait.  That has us wondering how the rebels will get away from that monster cannon, til Luke steps in and makes a mess of the FO's plans, and a fool of Rylo Ken.

 

The fact that we're all still talking about it also tells me there's more to it than just a visual festival of CGI.

[The Chief Smeg]

Still, at least we got a new character:

Cairo Len...

 

Bandai S. H. Figuarts Cairo Len 'Star Wars / The Last Jedi' https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075979X7X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_b5DvAbP8VY200

[Madmonk]

The 'backstory' on the Resistance Bomber is that there are a sequence of magnetic plates along the length of the bomb 'clip' to direct the proton bombs in microgravity environments.

 

All smoke and mirrors!!

 

There is also a magnetic seal when the bomb doors are open to protect the bombardier from the vacuum of space. 

[Kallisti]

I'm really impressed by Star Wars technology that they can have magnetic air that can be controlled like that

[Mike]

I've always just assumed they had forcefield between them and the vacuum. It's been a case of open bays with people milling around inside without protection since Ep4, so it's nothing new.

[iSteve]

The best perspective of this movie, curiously enough, comes from a fellow modeller. Go to Doogsmodels and read his review. After reading it, I just had to watch it again. Your impressions, of course, may vary.

[gunpowder17]

Thats probably the best review i have read.  I need to watch it again i think , in the comfort of my own home. Having a really bad view (2 rows from the front right out on one side) at the cinema really didnt help.

[Thud4444]

That review is very similar to the fanbase response reviews on Collider, ScreenRant and the Nerdist. There are also comparable threads on Reddit and Tumbler. If you've read any of those reviews, Doogsmodel's review is very analogous to them; especially ScreenRants. He does have some interesting points, especially about how the film frames failure; but I cant bring myself to agree with him. I don't think the  movie is as terrible as some let on, but I definitely don't agree that it's as well made as he says. I understand why the people that enjoyed the film loved it, but I left the theater feeling disappointed and frustrated. The exact opposite of my feelings for TFA and Rouge One. Needless to say, this is a very divisive movie. 

 

IMHO your enjoyment of the move comes down to can you overlook the plot problems or not?  

 

As for me, it reminds me of Gundam Seed Destiny.  There are clear bits of brilliance, let down by really poor plot decisions. And just like Destiny, the "twist" is cringe worthy and offputting. 

 

I could write on and on, but I really think Honest Trailers summed up my feeling perfectly:

(major spoilers BTW)

 

 

 

BTW for the first time in my life, I'm skipping a Star Wars movie. I just can't bring myself to go see Solo. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Thud4444
My first reponse was unnecessarily rude. I was responding when I was very tired in the early morning. If I offended or insulted anyone I apologise.

[iSteve]

I should have written, "The best perspective of this movie, in my opinion...." Thought I did, actually, but alas....

 

I just found that Doogs, et al perspective was one that I could embrace that pointed to few things I hadn't considered but were actually floating around my head when I was watching the movie. For me, it articulated those things well.

 

I didn't read what you wrote prior to your edit, Thud, but what I do see is fine by me. Every movie is going to have its fans and detractors - it's simply the nature of the beast. What I like most about Britmodeller is that I can escape the folk who only see things black and white and express themselves similarly, whether we're talking models or movies. It's why I now frequent this modelling site more than any other - and why I rarely post now on another site.

[Thud4444]

I agree Steve. We don't have agree to have an enjoyable conversation. Even if I didn't agree with it, Doog's review was well written. 

 

I may be eating my words. They just released another Solo trailer and it looks way better than the first two.

[grahamwalker]

The first  was great the next two quiet good all else after aload of rubbish and a waste off my money to see them

[iSteve]

I think the story for Solo could be a good one, but I'm still trying to get past the lead who, to me, only kinda looks like a young Ford. Minor quibble in what could potentially be one of the better films of the series. When I first heard they were making a Solo movie, my first thoughts were Disney's picking the lowest hanging fruit for tons of cash, and in light of that why bother? We'll see.

[Rumblestripe]

So, I've just watched the BR version and waded my way through the deleted scenes on the bonus disk.

 

On second viewing the Casino Scene seems much shorter and less irritating. The thread of the film is (IMO) letting go of the past to avoid making the same mistakes. The characters are on a journey, they are learning and growing with the exception of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. It is a decent film. The main criticisms seem to from people who don't like the story. That doesn't make it a BAD film, just a film you didn't like. No-one likes every film.

 

The deleted scenes are interesting, some of them are only partial "renders" with computer game type basic depictions of the CGI stuff, some are complete. The only one I think that should have been left in was a very short scene of Luke in his hut on wherever Skellig Michael is supposed to be, he has shut the door on Rey and he simply sits at a table and shows his anguish at what he is being asked to do. It really would have helped the story telling. The rest are of passing interest (you can be grateful that they ditched the extended chase scene through the Casino and town)

 

And I see that the first reviews of "Solo" are decent...

[Thud4444]

18 hours ago, Rumblestripe said:

 

 

On second viewing the Casino Scene seems much shorter and less irritating. 

 

There's a reason for that,  they significantly recut those scenes for the home release. If you can track down a theatrical cut, the changes are pretty obvious. 

[RACETRACK]

ok, last night I braved the blu ray. To my wife's disbelief I hit the double whammy of stop and eject just after her question of "why is she doing a Superman?". Yep, it wasn't a dream. The film really was that awful. Blu now rests along with the others in the SW collection and is destined to gather some serious dust.