Blitz23 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Afternoon, for 2018 I'm looking at building a few WW1 types, originally I had a Roden Gotha in mind but have been scared to tackle the rigging of that scale for a first build. So I've decided on the classic Fokker Triplane as well as the Fokker D.Vii as they have very little rigging to deal with. I don't know much about WW1 types, as my forte is WW2 aircraft, so I am keen on and advice and interior colour recommendation etc. Especially any wood effect tips for props etc. I will check out youtube and various internet pages but I thought it would be better to get it from fellow Britmodellers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krow113 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) What you cant find here on BM , you can find here: https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/ http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/ And you can watch me crush a WNW Gotha here: There is a wood grain method detailed clearly on the blog , using contemporary materials. Edited December 17, 2017 by krow113 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauls9cb Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 You've probably opened Pandora's box here since there's painfully brilliant examples of loads of WW1 a/c on this site all the time. I'm probably much the same as you, focussed more specifically on BoB subjects, but I've done a couple of Fokker's Triplanes for much the same reasons as you mention - particularly from childhood paranoia about rigging. My take on this is organisation and patience, both of which probably iprove as the eyesight deteriorates. You'll undoubtedly come across all sorts of good tips on prop woodwork on the net but it seems to me that the first step is to know your subject. Many German a/s had pprops that were mainly laminated layers of alternate mahogany and pine so you get that bi-colour effect that's quite easy to replicate with patience and sensible masking whether you're starting out with a wooden prop or a styrene one. The bigger the scale, the easier it becomes but I guess you need to start with a good light base colour and identify the layers that need a darker hue. Some of the clear colours (eg Tamiya clear yellow or orange) work for plastic props on top of white of light grey) with the darker layer some variation on red/brown. Some pics of my efforts are attached but by no means museum quality. Paul Revell 1:28 Scale Triplane a la Werner Voss' F1 1:8 Scale Fokker Dr 1 147/17 (W Nr 1859) Paul 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I'd try Wingnut Wings - awesome kits and a joy to build. Google Uschi van der Rosten's YouTube tutorials on rigging and get yourself some of his rigging line. Bob's Buckles for the end terminations and then have a few productive days doing it. Both highly recommended and definitely nothing to be afraid of. Because the WNW kits are awesome examples of their kind, the rest of the build will be a joy and little-removed from a WW2-era kit of the same scale. But be prepared for not wanting to build your WNW kits: they are works of art and by far the best plastic aircraft kits out there! I'd suggest the new Sopwith Dolphin kit, which looks a doozy and isn't too big. For wood effect I spray tan colour overall then leave it to dry. Then paint ochre oil paint, neat from the tube over the whole area. You can take it easy on the next bit and do it after 5 minutes or leave the oil for a while. I get a clean brush, moist with white spirit and then drag it through the oil, with the intent of wiping most of it off but leaving streaks. I'd try it first on some scrap plastic and try to see how much you're happy removing. Then when you are happy, leave your oily plastic in a dust-free environment for a good week: oil takes age to even remotely dry. Then gently spray on clear varnish to seal the oil (thin layers will stop any reaction, which can happen if you try to do it too soon or put it on too heavy). That last bit is in fact the only difficult bit - avoiding any reaction. Once that's dry you can leave it as it is or I like to overspray with clear orange to get a deeper wood varnish effect. Good luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I would also recommend Wingnut Wings kits. By far the easiest WWI kits to build and they look magnificent. The instructions in the box tell you virtually everything you need to know in excellent detail and the kits are geared towards being as detailed as possible while still being capable of being built as easily as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don149 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I too recommend WnWs , having built 20 of the little beauties to date . A simple method of painting the grain effect on struts and undercart legs is to coat them in a light or medium brown , then with a fairly broad slightly stiff brush dry-brush with a darker brown in the direction of the grain , use gloss paints and you can apply those little company logo transfers that some types have straight onto the dried surface . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Whatever scale you pick - and obviously the bigger the less fiddly but on the other hand the more detail is required to look the part - probably your best bet is something like an F.I, Dr.I or a D.VII due to the small amount of rigging. The big thing with WWI modelling is that you'll have to rig your model if you really want it to look the part and those I have listed are good to start with as they have only a few lines of rigging. It might not bother you too much but also the bigger you go in scale with WWI aircraft the more obvious it becomes if you don't use turnbuckles. I actually prefer 1/72 and 1/48 as (to my eyes at least) you can rig your models without turnbuckles without it being overly obviously, but once you get into 1/32 scale I find it's more noticeable. That might be just me but that's my opinion. If it was me pick one of those German subjects I listed above and go from there. My pick would be 1/48 to start with, big enough that it's not too fiddly but small enough that you can get away without having turnbuckles and too much detail in your rigging work. Cheers and look forward to pics of whatever you have a go at! Tim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 hours ago, Pauls9cb said: You've probably opened Pandora's box here since there's painfully brilliant examples of loads of WW1 a/c on this site all the time. I'm probably much the same as you, focussed more specifically on BoB subjects, but I've done a couple of Fokker's Triplanes for much the same reasons as you mention - particularly from childhood paranoia about rigging. My take on this is organisation and patience, both of which probably iprove as the eyesight deteriorates. You'll undoubtedly come across all sorts of good tips on prop woodwork on the net but it seems to me that the first step is to know your subject. Many German a/s had pprops that were mainly laminated layers of alternate mahogany and pine so you get that bi-colour effect that's quite easy to replicate with patience and sensible masking whether you're starting out with a wooden prop or a styrene one. The bigger the scale, the easier it becomes but I guess you need to start with a good light base colour and identify the layers that need a darker hue. Some of the clear colours (eg Tamiya clear yellow or orange) work for plastic props on top of white of light grey) with the darker layer some variation on red/brown. Some pics of my efforts are attached but by no means museum quality. Paul Revell 1:28 Scale Triplane a la Werner Voss' F1 1:8 Scale Fokker Dr 1 147/17 (W Nr 1859) Paul They look fantastic Paul, if mine come out half as good I'll be chuffed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 hours ago, Sabrejet said: I'd try Wingnut Wings - awesome kits and a joy to build. Google Uschi van der Rosten's YouTube tutorials on rigging and get yourself some of his rigging line. Bob's Buckles for the end terminations and then have a few productive days doing it. Both highly recommended and definitely nothing to be afraid of. Because the WNW kits are awesome examples of their kind, the rest of the build will be a joy and little-removed from a WW2-era kit of the same scale. But be prepared for not wanting to build your WNW kits: they are works of art and by far the best plastic aircraft kits out there! I'd suggest the new Sopwith Dolphin kit, which looks a doozy and isn't too big. For wood effect I spray tan colour overall then leave it to dry. Then paint ochre oil paint, neat from the tube over the whole area. You can take it easy on the next bit and do it after 5 minutes or leave the oil for a while. I get a clean brush, moist with white spirit and then drag it through the oil, with the intent of wiping most of it off but leaving streaks. I'd try it first on some scrap plastic and try to see how much you're happy removing. Then when you are happy, leave your oily plastic in a dust-free environment for a good week: oil takes age to even remotely dry. Then gently spray on clear varnish to seal the oil (thin layers will stop any reaction, which can happen if you try to do it too soon or put it on too heavy). That last bit is in fact the only difficult bit - avoiding any reaction. Once that's dry you can leave it as it is or I like to overspray with clear orange to get a deeper wood varnish effect. Good luck! 7 hours ago, Beardie said: I would also recommend Wingnut Wings kits. By far the easiest WWI kits to build and they look magnificent. The instructions in the box tell you virtually everything you need to know in excellent detail and the kits are geared towards being as detailed as possible while still being capable of being built as easily as possible. 6 hours ago, Don149 said: I too recommend WnWs , having built 20 of the little beauties to date . A simple method of painting the grain effect on struts and undercart legs is to coat them in a light or medium brown , then with a fairly broad slightly stiff brush dry-brush with a darker brown in the direction of the grain , use gloss paints and you can apply those little company logo transfers that some types have straight onto the dried surface . Wingnut wings were on my radar purely for the fact, they have good reference material on their website and the box art of their kits looks great. Unfortunately the price range puts me off and I mainly build 1/48 scale aircraft. I look forward to trying the techniques you've listed out though, hopefully I can do them justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Smithy said: Whatever scale you pick - and obviously the bigger the less fiddly but on the other hand the more detail is required to look the part - probably your best bet is something like an F.I, Dr.I or a D.VII due to the small amount of rigging. The big thing with WWI modelling is that you'll have to rig your model if you really want it to look the part and those I have listed are good to start with as they have only a few lines of rigging. It might not bother you too much but also the bigger you go in scale with WWI aircraft the more obvious it becomes if you don't use turnbuckles. I actually prefer 1/72 and 1/48 as (to my eyes at least) you can rig your models without turnbuckles without it being overly obviously, but once you get into 1/32 scale I find it's more noticeable. That might be just me but that's my opinion. If it was me pick one of those German subjects I listed above and go from there. My pick would be 1/48 to start with, big enough that it's not too fiddly but small enough that you can get away without having turnbuckles and too much detail in your rigging work. Cheers and look forward to pics of whatever you have a go at! Tim I think I'll try out the Eduard/Revell Dr.1 and not sure whether to go with the Eduard or Roden D.Vii, only because Roden has the option of engine on show I believe, and I can always order an interior set for it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 If you want to stay in the 1/48 scale (I used to do 1/48 WWI kits but, once I tried Wingnuts, I never looked back. You really do get what you pay for.) I would go for Eduard or the cheaper Revel versions if you are not bothered about the PE details. The Roden kits can be a bit of a nightmare with their very soft plastic and their D.VII is liable to put a novice biplane builder off the subject for life with a few fit issues. If you do go for Roden expect to have to buy aftermarket decals as the ones supplied are extremely brittle and difficult to work with. I wouldn't even try using their lozenge decal. I did and they disintegrated into a million pieces on contact with the wing. The Eduard Fokker D.VII kit is very good but be warned that the struts are to scale and extremely fragile. The fokker D.VII is a favourite choice with beginning bi-plane builders but, despite the minimal rigging the delicate struts and strut layout make it a tricky model to get the top wing on properly and this even goes for the Wingnut Wings Fokker D.VII although it is by far the easiest and sturdiest D.VII I've built. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) I stick with 1/72nd...don't fear the rigging! It adds an amazing amount of life and scale to your kit. I good first kit in this scale might be the Airfix Sopwith Pup. An easy build, some rigging, single bay, etc...stay away from the Roden kits at this stage. They can build up into good stuff but they require too much work and can have fiddly, poorly designed parts. Great detail, though. Note that the Encore kits are re-bagged Roden stock. Eduard makes lovely WW1 kits in this scale...Neiuports, Fokkers, SPADS...everything fits well and there is lovely detail too. Now if they only released a Fokker DVII in 1/72nd, then the world would be a perfect place... Just take your time and enjoy, regardless of scale... Edited December 18, 2017 by John D.C. Masters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Some great replies here, I'm taking it all in as I'm being pulled towards one or two WW1 types myself. Those WnW's keep calling me but I know I need to work up to them (I've been asked to build a WnW Camel for someone at some point though) so maybe one of the Eduard Weekend Edition D.VIIs in the stock is a good starting point. I really do like the look of the WnW Snipe late version in the all silver finish so maybe one day? Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Beardie said: If you want to stay in the 1/48 scale (I used to do 1/48 WWI kits but, once I tried Wingnuts, I never looked back. You really do get what you pay for.) I would go for Eduard or the cheaper Revel versions if you are not bothered about the PE details. The Roden kits can be a bit of a nightmare with their very soft plastic and their D.VII is liable to put a novice biplane builder off the subject for life with a few fit issues. If you do go for Roden expect to have to buy aftermarket decals as the ones supplied are extremely brittle and difficult to work with. I wouldn't even try using their lozenge decal. I did and they disintegrated into a million pieces on contact with the wing. The Eduard Fokker D.VII kit is very good but be warned that the struts are to scale and extremely fragile. The fokker D.VII is a favourite choice with beginning bi-plane builders but, despite the minimal rigging the delicate struts and strut layout make it a tricky model to get the top wing on properly and this even goes for the Wingnut Wings Fokker D.VII although it is by far the easiest and sturdiest D.VII I've built. Good point on the lozenge, review I watched on youtube said the same thing about the decals being poor. Think I get myself an Eduard pair of Fokkers after Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Actually in fairness to Roden, the decal shattering thing was from quite a few years ago (happened to me with an SE5a in 2004) but I'm fairly certain it was rectified quite some time ago. I decalled a 1/72 F.I of theirs not long ago and the decals behaved and went on perfectly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the helpful replies chaps, think I'll be ordering a pair of Eduard Fokkers, the D.Vii and the Triplane. I'd like to do Von Richthofens Red Baron aircraft, the D.Vii I'll see what comes with the kit. Edited December 18, 2017 by Blitz23 Speling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Yes...the Roden decals have been fixed, for some time now I think. Blitz.... You can't beat the Eduard DVII for 1/48th scale...invest in some Aviatik decals for this one. It'll save you hours of rib tape and can match the model DVII with the right lozenge--faded, even. I have for 1/72nd and it is great stuff. There are several BvR Tripes. Which one? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, John D.C. Masters said: Yes...the Roden decals have been fixed, for some time now I think. Blitz.... You can't beat the Eduard DVII for 1/48th scale...invest in some Aviatik decals for this one. It'll save you hours of rib tape and can match the model DVII with the right lozenge--faded, even. I have for 1/72nd and it is great stuff. There are several BvR Tripes. Which one? Thanks for the heads up, I actually purchased the Eduard D.Vii and the Revell Triplane (which I believe is an Eduard rebox) this morning so hoping by late this week they should have arrived. I'll most likely be doing the one that comes with the Revell kit John, as their cartograf decals. I want to do the D.Vii more of a colourful bird so I'll see what schemes come with the kit. Here's the kits I purchased. Edited December 18, 2017 by Blitz23 Link correction 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 hours ago, Duncan B said: Some great replies here, I'm taking it all in as I'm being pulled towards one or two WW1 types myself. Those WnW's keep calling me but I know I need to work up to them (I've been asked to build a WnW Camel for someone at some point though) so maybe one of the Eduard Weekend Edition D.VIIs in the stock is a good starting point. I really do like the look of the WnW Snipe late version in the all silver finish so maybe one day? Duncan B Maybe one day I'll do a Wingnut kit, they look superb. Think my wife might divorce me if she knew I'd spent £100 of a kit though , that's not a bad idea actually! Yeah I agree I like the all silver finish, reminds me of the inter war birds in the RAF such as the Fury and Nimrod. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Blitz23 said: Maybe one day I'll do a Wingnut kit, they look superb. Think my wife might divorce me if she knew I'd spent £100 of a kit though , that's not a bad idea actually! Yeah I agree I like the all silver finish, reminds me of the inter war birds in the RAF such as the Fury and Nimrod. A lot of the WWI RFC/RNAS/RAF aircraft can look pretty striking in aluminium dope as we're so used to seeing them in PC10 or PC12. There's a couple of fantastic profiles and a few photos of silver SEs in Sturtivant's "The Se5 File" book which have tempted me for awhile now (and yes I am a bit of an SE5 nut as you can probably gather from this post and my previous!). Edited December 18, 2017 by Smithy Rubbish spelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 The kits arrived this morning, overall they look like decent kits and I can't wait to clear the bench and get them started in 2018. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 10 hours ago, Blitz23 said: The kits arrived this morning, overall they look like decent kits and I can't wait to clear the bench and get them started in 2018. Please let us know how you get on, you might encourage others to follow you into the world of linen and rigging. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz23 Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Duncan B said: Please let us know how you get on, you might encourage others to follow you into the world of linen and rigging. Duncan B Thanks Duncan, I'm looking forward to it, be a change from WW2 subjects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 (edited) Im definitely looking at WW1 aircraft myself. The rigging has always put me off, but i think i have the patience and skills to attempt it now. I would like to thank everyone here for threads like this with all the advice and tips. That and all the encouragement everyone here offers. Im looking at Eduard currently because WNW’s are just way outside my budget allowance. Someday I hope to build WNW kits but I will start out small for now. My first will likely be an Albatross V as Ive always liked the look of them. Followed by a Fokker or possibly an allied plane. Dennis Edited December 24, 2017 by Corsairfoxfouruncle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardie Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 The Eduard Albatri are great kits (Including the other Marks). The rigging is not nearly as scary or frustrating in reality as it is in the mind. It is more laborious than difficult with preparation and care and the results are very satisfying. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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