Iii./jg2 fw190 a8 scheme - another question

[Lawzer]

So i've chosen another victim but be butchered....

 

VERY old otaki 1/48 fw190 a8.

 

now sadly i don't speak japanese (what the instructions are in) so my questions are...

 

is this scheme right?: (according to scalemates iii./jg2)

 

(the pics i can find show yellow fin and lower cowl)

 

and would these 2 mg/ cannon pods have been fitted:

 

 

I am really not a 100% accuracy kinda chap but i'd least like to get the "stand out" colours right....

 

might leave off the under wing packs but there must have been ejection ports for the standard outer wing guns (inner have the ejection ports but need to be hollowed out)?

 

there's a girl at work that's japanese but you have to be careful what you say to people these days....

 

tia

 

ian

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Lawzer

[BIG X]

That is a beautiful looking 190 - it really stands out.  I am no expert - by any means - and I will willing to be correct in the interests of Lawzer getting it right...

I thought yellow tails and cowls were BoB period - so red may be 'another theatre' or simply be a JG thing.

 

On the ejection ports - I have been reliably informed on my previous 109 builds that the luftwaffe took their rubbish home with them - very green - by storing the spent shell belts in the wings.  The 190 could be completely different of course.

 

Let's get some answers from those that actually 'know' though...

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

I used red on my Rammjager from 1944. Heres a photo 

when i researched the Rammjagers. I found some Fw-190’s in some units used red or yellow to reflect different Staffels from others. I actually found one profile that showed a medium blue used in these locations. I hope it helps.

[Troy Smith]

5 hours ago, Lawzer said:

So i've chosen another victim but be butchered....

 

VERY old otaki 1/48 fw190 a8.

 

now sadly i don't speak japanese (what the instructions are in) so my questions are...

 

is this scheme right?: (according to scalemates iii./jg2)

 

(the pics i can find show yellow fin and lower cowl)

 

and would these 2 mg/ cannon pods have been fitted:

 

HI Ian

scalemates talking out the bottom, the top scheme is a  IV./JG 3 - Fw 190 Sturmbock

this one

 

these were specialised bomber destroyer units, note the extra armour on the hood, and just visible, armour plate under the cockpit. They often stripped out the cowl mgs, and had 30 mm canon on the outer wings.  The kit as supplied will not have these.

bit more on the type

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/focke-wulf-190-sturmbock-over.html

Quote

During May 1944 these pilots converted on to the heavily armed and armoured bomber destroyer variant of the Fw-190A-8/R2 specifically produced for the role. Many of the surviving pilots from Sturmstaffel 1 were incorporated into IV./JG 3 as 11. Staffel.

In late May 1944, all 68 pilots of the unit were assembled to hear the Gruppenkommandeur, Hauptman Wilhelm Moritz read out the Sturmgruppe Oath: “We swear to fight in defense of the Reich true to the principles and rules of engagement of the Sturmgruppe. We know that, as pilots of the Sturmgruppe, we are called upon in a special way to protect and defend to the utmost of our ability the population of our homeland. We undertake that, on every mission resulting in contact with four-engine bombers, we shall press home the attack to the shortest range and - if unsuccessful in shooting down the enemy by gunfire - we will destroy him by ramming.” This oath was largely superfluous since the Fw 190's 30mm cannon could bring down a bomber with only a handful of shells at close enough range.

loads more about Sturmbock units here

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Fw 190 Sturmbock

 

including more on the armour and equipment fit, and outer wing guns

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/wilhelm-moritz-fw-190-8r2-schongau.html

 

and more on the subtype

http://falkeeins.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/difference-between-fw190a-8r2-and-8r8.html

 

so, back to the original  question

 

no, no outer underwing pods.  I think the red nose, and rudder are wrong,   some has black noses.  The markings were done a long time ago, and an awful lot more info on Luftwaffe markings has come out since

 

Are you planning on using the original decals?  I don't know how good they were to start with, let alone after 40 years... 

There are loads of Fw190 decals floating about.  the Eduard profipacks come with multiple options.  Ask in the wanted section.

 

the kit as stands is wrong for the markings supplied for black 13 anyway.

the good news is the Otaki kit is very well shaped, (compared to AL Bentley's Fw190 drawings) and has fine engraved detail.    To build a Sturmbock you need to do some work,  the basic kits is a standard A8 IIRC, but offhand I can't remember the details of what armament was fitted to the kit, but I think it lacks  the outer wing bulges, and the wheels are poor.    I'd have to dig mine out to refresh more details.

 

there are plenty of Fw190 buffs here who will know more,   @FalkeEins  blog is the one I linked.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

[Lawzer]

Thanks folks!

 

@BIG X, thanks for the tip about "keeping" the shells...saves me having to make more holes!

 

@Corsairfoxfouruncle I think the red really sets it off.

 

@Troy Smith many thanks for the great info (as usual  ).

Indeed after doing a bit of research (a near first for me) you're right - it's a standard A8 with the mg151's in the outer wing (well, as far as I can tell.  the wing bulges seem to correspond with other standard A8 bulges from other kit manufacturers).  No additional armour / armoured windscreen so I'll see if anyone has any spare A8 "standard" decals.

 

I knew it was an old kit but didn't realize it was from 1980.  OK so detail missing from the cockpit and "solid" exhausts and I think I read somewhere the u/c legs are too long (measured against an fw190 suspended so no "compression") but for a fiver I'm well pleased with it......

 

 

[Troy Smith]

21 minutes ago, Lawzer said:

I knew it was an old kit but didn't realize it was from 1980. 

the plans are from 1978,  the kit is mid 70's.   

 

the build here maybe of some use

https://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/luft/jamison190.htm

 

IIRC many Eduard Fw190's come with alternate wheels, so maybe worth asking for spares of those.

 

HTH

T

[Pauls9cb]

Hi Lawzer - IMHO it's not wholly correct to suggest that spent shells were all retained on board after firing. Just check out all the early Bf 109 E and F variants on which there is abundant references with pedigree. Where it may be correct (I'm interested in any opinions on this) is that the cowling weapons on Bf 109s (and I imagine also FW 190s) ejected their spent cartridges into tanks spaces adjacent to the wing root and forward of the engine firewall  which were presumably emptied after landing. Robert Mihulec's Bf 109 F book (MMBBooks Yellow  Series No 6133 - ISBN 978-83-61421-75-7) has a drawing on pages 123 and 126 which claim to come from the a/c manual showing this arrangement. With no apparent ejection ports under the fuselages of Bf 109 Es or FW 190s, I would bet the spent case arrangement for the fuselage weapons on these a/c was the same or similar to this.

The wing guns are a different matter. I think all wing weapons originally fitted wiithin the wing structure of all these fighters had ejection chutes on the underside surfaces. Some variants of the FW 190 A-F series had either the inner or outer cannons removed for operational reasons, but I'm not sure what would have happened to the ejection chutes for the weapons that were removed - probably stayed there. I'm always ready to hear different opinions, but that seems right to me. I'm no expert specifically on the Rammjagers so can't help any more on them. Perhaps Troy has some photo references that show one of  these from below. I haven't got any. Lots of luck though - all the A-F 190s are among my favourite Jagdwaffe subjects. I can't imagine a "green" faction existed anywhere in the Third Reich but who knows?

Paul

[Lawzer]

Thanks for the info @Pauls9cb

 

 

In this kit the ejection ports seem to be there for the cowl mounted guns and inner wing guns (at least that's what I'm assuming that is just inboard of the wheel wells):

 

 

(the hole circled in red is the locating hole for the under wing packs which I'm not fitting so will be filled in).

 

I've had a look on t'internet and I can't find many (if any) pics of ejection chutes on the outer guns if it's a standard A8.  Seems the ones modified for the larger cannon may have had the, well i guess, inspection door modified to eject the casings / other bits.

 

 

[Pauls9cb]

Hi again Lawzer - I think I stand corrected on the ejection chutes for the FW 190, confirming the unlikely green status of the Luftwaffe during WW2. I have to admit to being fascinated mainly by BoB subjects which exclude Kurt Tank's very effective machine. I've made a Tamiya 190 A-3 as one of the Jabos that were shot down in 1943 near where I live. This, like many of these Jabos, had the u/c inner retractable panels  removed, together with the centre section panel where your A-8 shows the recesses for the fuselage MG 131 ejection chutes. I've dug into the spares box and found among the many bits of plastic that were redundant for my subject the bit from the Tamiya kit that was probably for this ejection function. I'm pretty sure though that the Messerschmitt method, both for E and F models, was as shown in Mihulec's book, although that's not really relevant to your project. I suppose my earlier comment was as much responding to Big X's comment as anything. Apologies for any red herrings flying about, whatever the variant. Cheers.

Paul

[BIG X]

...I knew I'd read it somewhere...

[Lawzer]

So another question....

 

i *think* i know the answer but.....

 

the pilots head armour behind his head - is it attached to the sliding canopy?  I did a d13 (or maybe 12) where it was.....or maybe the a8 was different?

 

reason i ask is this kit is designed for a closed canopy but i'm going to attempt to do it open so i need to do some modification to the parts first.....

 

tia

 

Ian

Edited December 14, 2017 by Lawzer

[Chuck1945]

4 hours ago, Lawzer said:

So another question....

 

i *think* i know the answer but.....

 

the pilots head armour behind his head - is it attached to the sliding canopy?  I did a d13 (or maybe 12) where it was.....or maybe the a8 was different?

 

reason i ask is this kit is designed for a closed canopy but i'm going to attempt to do it open so i need to do some modification to the parts first.....

 

tia

 

Ian

The head armor was attached to a bulkhead towards the rear of the canopy and slid back and forth with the canopy as it was closed/opened.

[Lawzer]

Thought it was.....

 

cheers @Chuck1945 👍

[longweight]

The outer wing guns when fitted to various versions of the later 190A's used a different underwing panel. This panel had two different small bulges depending on the weapons fitted and aircraft version. These bulges incorporated "handed" ejection ports. They are not included in the Otaki/Arii kits. 

IIRC the Otaki kit while a good build is not entirely accurate, these days being surpassed by such as Dragon, Hasegawa even Hobbyboss (?) I have my reservations about the original Eduard kits though. However since the eduard kits included parts for many versions someone may have the underwing panels you seek as spares.

I would also recommend a good look round the website of AL Bentley. https://www.albentley-drawings.com  His drawings of the Fw190A series aircraft are a joy to behold.

 

HTH John H

Edited December 27, 2017 by longweight