RAF Harvard Post War Colours and Markings

[Thore t]

We are in the process of repainting our full size Harvard, S/N 14A-2268 now registered as LN-TEX. The aircraft saw service in RAF as KF568 up until 1949, from what we know at ITF Tangmere.

 

We would like to recreate the aluminium RAF scheme with yellow trainer bands and Type D roundels.

 

Any information in the form of photographs  (also of contemporary Harvards in a similar paint scheme), marking information and colour codes would be highly appreciated.

 

Thore Thoresen

Oslo, Norway

 

[Selwyn]

The Aircraft were not in Aluminium they were painted silver

 

Try this one?

 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/military-unit/613 Squadron

 

Selwyn

[Thore t]

12 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

The Aircraft were not in Aluminium they were painted silver

 

Try this one?

 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/military-unit/613 Squadron

 

Selwyn

Thank you, Selwyn!

 

- Thore

[Sabrejet]

Thore,

 

Not sure about unit, but these Harvards are roughly contemporary with the scheme you're looking for (courtesy Vic Nickson):

 

 

 

[canberra kid]

This is one my dad flew in Japan the photo was taken December 20th 1947 (almost exactly 70 years ago) I suspect it is over all yellow perhaps an ex RCAF machine? given the unusual roundle. 

 

John 

[Thore t]

Sabrejet, thanks a lot, great photos! Do you know which colour the front cowling was?

 

Cheers,

Thore

 

[Sabrejet]

4 hours ago, Thore t said:

Sabrejet, thanks a lot, great photos! Do you know which colour the front cowling was?

 

Cheers,

Thore

 

Unfortunately no, but I'd guess red.

[72modeler]

6 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Unfortunately no, but I'd guess red.

I think these Harvards might be from RAF Cranwell; if so, I think their aircraft had blue cowl rings. The cowl ring  looks much closer to the blue of the fin flash and roundel in the photos than the red of the same...just an uneducated and probably incorrect guess! Mighty purty, though!

Mike

[Wez]

21 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I think these Harvards might be from RAF Cranwell; if so, I think their aircraft had blue cowl rings. The cowl ring  looks much closer to the blue of the fin flash and roundel in the photos than the red of the same...just an uneducated and probably incorrect guess! Mighty purty, though!

Mike

Cranwell blue is a light blue and it was often seen replacing the fuselage yellow trainer band on many aircraft (ususally with, IIRC, a dark blue outline).  Not sure about Harvards though or how quickly that method of marking their aircraft was adopted post war but these will be post 1947.

 

You're right though, mighty pretty.

 

I wish there was a proper Harvard in 1/72nd scale...

[camper1]

KF472 Did fly with the RAFC at Cranwell until 7/47,from 4/49 until 12/52 she was with 7FTS and wore the codes FBB:L later changed to T:O.

FX240 Also flew with 7FTS from 7/51 until 5/53 and wore the codes FBB:L also, later changed to the one in the photo.

Hi John the one your father flew was despatched to India and has no record of service there, presumably it was in storage, sent to the Far East by 9/46 and allocated to1315 Flight until SOC 11/10/48.

I would agree with you that the aircraft is yellow as it has the same markings as a lot of the Canadian units and some of my fathers photo's show the same markings, these were taken during one of his instructors

"rest tours" which he always said were as dangerous as operational flying.I think he sometimes forgot he was a pupil at one time!!!!!

My own guess at the nose ring colour would be blue as it seems to match the roundel blue, only an opinion

Cheers

 

Ian

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, Wez said:

Cranwell blue is a light blue and it was often seen replacing the fuselage yellow trainer band on many aircraft (ususally with, IIRC, a dark blue outline).  Not sure about Harvards though or how quickly that method of marking their aircraft was adopted post war but these will be post 1947.

 

You're right though, mighty pretty.

 

I wish there was a proper Harvard in 1/72nd scale...

Maybe when CMR does the versions they have had listed as future releases for quite a while....will probably be very good but pricey!

Mike

[Wez]

5 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Maybe when CMR does the versions they have had listed as future releases for quite a while....will probably be very good but pricey!

Mike

I didn't know they'd even mooted doing one. You're right though, it would be nice, but pricey.  No good if like me, you wanted to do about a dozen Harvards, that would blow the budget for at least three years!

[Graham Boak]

There were plenty of WW2 RAF Harvards with the shorter rear canopy, and this can be made from almost any T-6 kit; although if you start from a T-6G (like most) you'll need a new tailwheel.  However, most post-WW2  Harvards (but not all) were Canadian-built examples with the longer fixed rear canopy.  This is available in a Falcon set of canopies - the US aircraft in  British service, IIRC.  This has been available as a separate piece but I don't think that it is now.  Other people have produced attempts at the "Canadian" canopy over the years but were generally not very good.  The canopy in the AZ NA-57 will do nicely but that leaves you with the problem of what to do with this kit - earlier variants such as the BT-9 actually had a different canopy altogether (despite initial appearances).

 

 

[Wez]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

There were plenty of WW2 RAF Harvards with the shorter rear canopy, and this can be made from almost any T-6 kit; although if you start from a T-6G (like most) you'll need a new tailwheel.  However, most post-WW2  Harvards (but not all) were Canadian-built examples with the longer fixed rear canopy.  This is available in a Falcon set of canopies - the US aircraft in  British service, IIRC.  This has been available as a separate piece but I don't think that it is now.  Other people have produced attempts at the "Canadian" canopy over the years but were generally not very good.  The canopy in the AZ NA-57 will do nicely but that leaves you with the problem of what to do with this kit - earlier variants such as the BT-9 actually had a different canopy altogether (despite initial appearances).

 

 

Graham,

 

Agreed there were plenty of WWII Harvards with the short canopy, all of those I wish to build are Canadian built aircraft and have the longer canopy.  Unfortunately, I also want to make about a dozen post war Harvards so the solutions you offer for getting to a long-canopied isn't really viable.

 

I can't help but think a new mainstream kit of a specifically a Harvard rather than a Texan would be a nice little earner?  Airfix would do well to replace their old 1/72nd Harvard...   ...just saying that's all!

[Graham Boak]

If you want to do that many, then go back to first principles.  Try making a master (from an extended original kit part, perhaps)  and plunge mould as many as you need.  I tried this a few times some decades back with varied and not entirely satisfactory results, but I put that down to lack of experience and unwillingness/no current need to take things further.  I know that good results can be obtained, and have been by many modellers.

 

I'd love just such a kit as you suggest, but don't see any vast market for it.  The combined UK and Canadian market for non-combat types just isn't large enough for the big companies, and the smaller companies would make a kit that was too expensive for your wishes.  Also, it seems that the glory days of multiple exotic models coming out of Czechoslovakia are much reduced, if not quite over.

 

You could perhaps contact the maker of RS kits, and ask if he has any spare, or could run extras off, of the canopy in his recent Yale kits.  I don't think it's quite perfect, but it's pretty close.

[72modeler]

19 hours ago, Wez said:

I didn't know they'd even mooted doing one. You're right though, it would be nice, but pricey.  No good if like me, you wanted to do about a dozen Harvards, that would blow the budget for at least three years!

Wez,

 

I think this is the one I remembered reading about- is this a version that would interest UK modelers? No release date, though....I'm still waiting for the revised Bristol M1C they have announced ages ago! Does this help?

Mike

https://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/shop/images/images020312/CMR-CS68.jpg

 

[Wez]

7 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

You could perhaps contact the maker of RS kits, and ask if he has any spare, or could run extras off, of the canopy in his recent Yale kits.  I don't think it's quite perfect, but it's pretty close.

 

Now there's an idea...

 

5 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Wez,

 

I think this is the one I remembered reading about- is this a version that would interest UK modelers? No release date, though....I'm still waiting for the revised Bristol M1C they have announced ages ago! Does this help?

Mike

https://www.modelhobbies.co.uk/shop/images/images020312/CMR-CS68.jpg

 

 

I do recall seeing that now, I can't remember if it was a conversion or a full blown kit, that would do the trick though (even if it was only a conversion).

[sanguin]

How about something just slightly more exotic for your proposed repaint?

 

The Harvard from 500 (County of Kent) Squadron as shown on the Freightdog 'Weekend Warriors' decal sheet may look more interesting to both the  general public and enthusiasts.

 

The sheet is for sale on certain sales website:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Freightdog-Decals-1-48-WEEKEND-WARRIORS-Royal-Auxiliray-Air-Force-1948-1953-/130760309857

 

I cannot find a 'non-copyright-infringing' link that shows the three-view as well as the actual markings; it is also available in 1/72 from Freightdog or Fantasy printshop.

 

This is a link to the only on-line image I can find of this aircraft:

https://biblio.co.uk/book/harvard-t2b-fx432-r-500-sqn/d/319022176

 

The Auxiliary Air Force boys get very little coverage from the aircraft restoration movement and it would be rather nice to see a Harvard flying that has proper squadron markings.

Disclaimer. This suggestion is in no way related to the fact that I was born in and now live in the County of Kent, it is just coincidence!  

 

As to the 1/72 CMR resin conversion set noted above, it features the longer canopy, long external  exhaust and i think the small dorsal dome shown on the box.

I had this set years ago, it was fine but i vaguely recall some comment later that the canopy framing was slightly wrong, although that may be just brain fade on my part.

 

Edit: the brain fade isn't as bad as I thought.

This is worth a read if you are building a Harvard IIb (or even IIa?):

 

John

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by sanguin

[Wez]

The University Air Squadrons also have some interesting and colourful aircraft, Cambridge UAS had Harvard IIb KF735/A which can be found on S+M Decal Sheet SM72-005 Post-War British Trainer Collection, the band is light blue with a narrow dark blue and red cheatline along the length of the band (blue on top).

[BS_w]

From EMM NA T-6, 1956

paint: two coat clear lacquer containing 12 ounces aluminium paste/1 US Gallon)

the yellow stripe measured along the LE: 91", and TE: 90"

Antiglare: Olive Drab 613 or Black 604

 

HTH

Edited December 16, 2017 by BS_w

[GordonM]

On 14/12/2017 at 4:40 PM, Wez said:

The University Air Squadrons also have some interesting and colourful aircraft, Cambridge UAS had Harvard IIb KF735/A which can be found on S+M Decal Sheet SM72-005 Post-War British Trainer Collection, the band is light blue with a narrow dark blue and red cheatline along the length of the band (blue on top).

Was that scheme ever done in 1:48?

[Wez]

15 minutes ago, GordonM said:

Was that scheme ever done in 1:48?

Not to my knowledge

[GordonM]

7 minutes ago, Wez said:

Not to my knowledge

Typical! 😢

[Wez]

29 minutes ago, GordonM said:

Typical! 😢

Isn't it though!