Anyone still using klear and tamiya flat base as a matt varnish?

[degsye39]

Evening lads hope your all good 

 

I've been using the ''New clear'' since returning to the hobby, Used it quite a bit for clear coats sealing decals etc. I've heard people say that it yellows?! but i have found it to be fine so far!

I have been using the astonish floor polish for canopies as i find that a touch shinier, Anyway i digress.

Last night i had a go at mixing some of the ''new'' klear ie pledge multi surface wax with some tamiya flat base, I used the ratios specified on swannys complete future..

I tested it out on some scrap parts and it has left some frosting and white spots! Doh! 

So my question is gents can you make a matt varnish with the latest incarnation of ''klear'' or did it only work with the old clear?!

Or did i mix things up wrong!

 

Thanks and all the best lads!

Edited December 7, 2017 by degsye39

[degsye39]

Hopefully my test on a scrap bit of bedford will show what i mean, The white looks like matting agent in fairness.

 

https://ibb.co/frjVkG

 

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by degsye39

[Rwa66]

Hello Degsye,

From the picture that you've posted, it looks like you have added too much of the flat base to your klear. This will result in the frosted look that parts of that piece exhibit. You can try recoating with klear and this may get rid of the white effect. A little experimentation with flat base and klear may be your best route, you need very little flat base to klear part for part. hth.

Cheers Richard.

P.S.

You are correct, the frost is the matting agent.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Rwa66

[degsye39]

Hi richard thanks for the reply mate,

 

When i say i followed swannys ratios i was probably a little bit rough and ready with it 

Just out of interest are you using the pledge multi surface wax when you mix? (One with the milky consistency)

Or do you have some old klear?

 

Cheers

[Rwa66]

Hi Degsye,

I have used the flat base with the old klear and it worked, I have not tried the new klear so can't really comment other than it seems to have mostly worked in your picture. I would regard this as an encouraging sign that you will likely get the finish you want with a bit of trial and error.

I use tamiya clear x-22 thinned heavily with a small amount of flat base and also tamiya xf-86 flat clear, Vallejo flat varnish is another one that I have had good results with. I do airbrush all these, Tamiya paints can be tricky to brush paint, Vallejo should be fine.

Cheers and good luck

Richard.

[degsye39]

Cheers richard,

 

Im just gonna try add a smidge more klear and faff about with it on bits of scrap if i get it to perform ill post back on here,

Im strictly a brush painter and have been using winsor newton galeria matt for the past year.. It performed lovely on 1/72 figures and armour dried flat as a pancake and self leveled with no visible brushmarks.

 

Cue me trying it on larger areas, It end up a streaky mess on the wing of my airfix 1/72 me109.. But i think this may be down to me using a tiny sable brush!

Ive picked up a bottle of winsor newton flow improver and i have ordered a large white bristle brush so that should help me get a level finish on large areas!

 

Still while im waiting i thought i would have a punt with the flat base and klear! 

 

Regards! 

[Rwa66]

Hi Degsye,

You sound like you have it figured out, the larger brush should make a difference as should the flow improver. Things always have the potential to go awry when slightly different subjects arise, but it has worked before on your other models and will likely only need small tweaks for a result that is satisfactory. Look forward to hearing of your success.

cheers

Richard

P.S

Games workshop Lahmian medium may also work if you have some, just add it to the klear. It produces a lovely matt finish when dry and of course brush paints well.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Rwa66

[sapperastro]

You could try the recipe used on the Brushpainter blog;

 

http://www.dogma72.com/clear-flat/

 

Now, whether this will work due to Future being used, I don't know, but you could probably get a bottle off ebay or elsewhere, or try it with your new version.

[Duncan B]

Alchemy!! Things have moved on so much with regards to acrylic hobby paints and varnishes that I would have thought this was quite unnecessary nowadays?

I used to use Kleer back in the day before there were any dedicated acrylic clear coats available for Modellers. I hate the thought of mucking up a paint job, that might have taken a few weeks to paint and weather, with a floor polish. I've had too many bad experiences with Kleer orange peeling to go back to those days.

Sorry if this comes over as condescending, I'm not trying to be, it's just me voicing my own opinion.

 

Duncan B

[degsye39]

Hi duncan your not condescending mate.. Whats the forum for if its not to foster lively discussion about matt varnish? 

 

Im one of these sorts who has ''returned to the hobby'' you see.. But despite the bewildering array of new stuff im still pretty binary about it all! my first few attempts with acrylics and the subsequent paint loss steered me towards using enamel.. No finer modelling paint than vintage humbrol enamel IMHO.

 

The new klear i find fine i have had no issues with it, it dries clear and behaves itself (good stuff and cheap), But i have been using winsor newton galeria as a final matt coat, The issue is it performed fine for 1/72 figures and armour as soon as i tried it on bigger stuff i was getting brush marks left right and center! Hence me playing about with the klear while waiting on some wider white bristle brushes and some winsor newton flow improver!!

 

Your in the trade what matt varnish would you recommend to a brush painter? (sadly no space for an airbrush or rattle cans!)

 

Cheers and all the best mate!

 

 

[degsye39]

Sapper i had look at danchos post.. He seems to be using the US version i think it may behave slightly different to the UK stuff!

 

I added more flat base to my mix anyway.. I didn't get any frosting but i could only achieve a satin finish not a dead matt one! (It came out rather like the sheen on vallejos matt)

 

Just out of interest what matt varnish are you using bud?

 

Cheers and regards!

[sapperastro]

When I used ti brush paint flat coats there were only two really good ones with no (unless you put on too much) frosting or greying; Humbrol enamel matt varnish (this apparently yellows over time though) and Humbrol matt cote. The matt cote is still good as I used it recently to show my son how to brush it on when he claimed it was impossible to brush paint matt varnish haha. Stir the matt cote thoroughly unless the matting agent at the bottom is fully mixed in, decant an amount to a mixing tray, add humbrol enamel thinners to thin is a little, and then apply. Don't overload your brush! You just want thin coats that don't run or pool otherwise you will get the dreaded frosting.

 

Other matt coats I have tried brushing;

 

The Alchemy version above: decent but finicky. You have to mix it and try on scrap before declaring a bottle of mixture ready.

Vallejo MC: One of the better acrylics, but not as good or clear as matt cote. Some sheen still present.

Revell Aqua: not good. frosts easily.

W&N: works well, but does not go really matt.

New Humbrol enamel matt varnish: needs to be thinned beyond belief, and even then its a lottery.

Humbrol acrylic matt varnish; better than expected but mine was gritty.

Liquitex: similar to W&N.

 

 

[Duncan B]

Have you considered aerosol clear coats? I know they have to be used with care but, even though I have an airbrush, I have used aerosols for applying a sealing gloss coat before applying decals and weathering washes. I can recommend the Gunze range of aerosols. I don't stock them but am a user of them and they have various finishes available, it might even be possible to decant them into pots for brush painting (I have decanted into pots for airbrushing).

W&N Galleria are also very good for brush users as you probably already know.

 

Duncan B

[degsye39]

Sapper ive got 3 or 4 pots of that matt cote floating about in the paint box ill have a go with that, Im gonna have another go with the W&N with a wide brush later..

 

Would you recommend thinning the matt cote with white spirit or does it really need to be humbrols own enamel thinners?

 

Cheers!

[degsye39]

Duncan im far to rough and ready for aerosols, I just haphazardly slap on my enamels when i use them!

 

Im going to try make a go of using the W&N or the mattcote! But i concede i might have to use an aerosol if all falls down! 

 

All the best! 

[sapperastro]

I would recommend the Humbrol thinner (or other 'branded' hobby enamel thinner) as the white spirit can leave a residue with the newer Humbrol products. I suppose you could try gum turpentine if you prefer that.

 

I have used aerosols before, and the Tamiya cans with multiple light coats work well.

[stevehnz]

i've used Klear & flat base in about 1:5 ratio with reasonable results but now I find it easier to use a matt varnish. I tried Reeve matt varnish & was initially happy with it but it seems to have thickened & I have had to use some flow improver aka bubble mix with it, that seems to work OK, recently I've use Liquitex matt varnish as recommended by someone on here & I like that. Both the Liquitex & Reeve gave a satin matt finish which I find looks right in my preferred 1/72.

Steve.

[degsye39]

Ay up steve thanks for the shout,

 

The best finish ive managed to achieve with the klear/flat base mix is at best a satin matt, The galeria dries dead matt..

Im presuming satin matt is more accurate for ww2 era 1/72's? I cant seem to work it out using google image search!

In fairness the 1/72 me109 i have just coated in W&N Is dead matt (indifferent finish achieved) Is dead matt wrong?

 

Cheers!

[stevehnz]

Fwiw, I reckon dead flat is too flat for smaller scales, I model only 1/72 & looking at 1/144 now too. Similarly, a high gloss is too much as well, so I aim for a satin flat or satin gloss finish as appropriate & feel its a more real world effect. IMHO of course.

Steve.