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Spitfire Tr.IX


cynicaljohnny

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Good Morning

 

A couple of quick questions re: Spitfire Tr.IX (or Tr.9?), particularly in Irish Air Force Service, that I'm hoping someone can help me with, as emails to both ARC at Duxford and Biggin Hill have met with no response....

 

1) would armour behind the seat have been fitted to either cockpit? seems unnecessary weight o be lugging around in a trainer....

2) was there a fuel tank forward of the cockpit? the original MkVIII had a smaller tank installed, but was this carried over to the Tr.IX? Restored examples don't appear to have the rather obvious fuel cap of the single seat version.

3) is the canopy glass behind the sliding portion of the front canopy smaller (in length) than normal? Or has it just been partially painted over?

4) oxygen bottles: standard position of Mk IX, or moved/removed?

 

Thanks.

 

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According to Alfred Price's 'The Spitfire Story', the TR9s were given a similar conversion to that designed for Mk VIII types, in which the front cockpit was moved forward 13.5 inches, and the two front fuel tanks were replaced by a single smaller one, together with additional wingtanks inboard.  Armament, when fitted, consisted of the outer .303 guns only.  It does beg the question 'where are the filler caps?'.

 

It does not give any detail of the armour fittings that you asked about, but I would question the point of armour on a training aircraft.

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Don't know if this helps.  This is the Boultbee T9 based in Goodwood.  I was getting in whilst the wing tanks were being re-filled.  I am pretty sure there was no armour plate and notice the wing gun position..

 

38877824111_b662c68bbd_b.jpg

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Not too sure about some of the "restored" Tr.9s - at least a few of them are modern conversations, and at least one has a standard Mk.IX wing, complete with cannons, which is definitely wrong. PV202, which is ex-IAF, had red patches over both outer gun positions in each wing, although my understanding is there was only one gun per wing.

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All pictures of IAC Spitfire IXs show two patches on each wing or the two holes per wing if the patches are not there. Interestingly one picture seems to show stain from powder only around the inner MG port, may be a confirmation that there aircrafts only carried one MG per wing or simply the effect of the airflow that lets one MG bay gets dirtier than the other. Unfortunately the barrels are ont visible in any of the pictures I have.

Among these picrures there are some that partially show the cockpit, it's hard to see behind the seats but from the little I can see I'd go with no armour

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The Spitfire only had one front fuel tank, although the one in the F.Mk.VIII was larger (deeper) than that on the F.Mk.IX.  However the F Mk.VIII also had a small tank in each wing root, between the leading edge and the spar.  The photo above shows that the wing tank on the Tr.Mk.IX is further outboard, and presumably aft of the front spar.  I would guess that the Tr.Mk.VIII was the same, but maybe not?

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There were two separate tanks in front of the cockpit on most Spitfires, around 85 imp gallons total.  Some later types had additional rear or wing tankage, and the volume and balance of the two front tanks varied a bit.  There are photos of Tr9s with the filler cap on the front upper tank, though presumably this is smaller to allow for the cockpit being 13.5” forward on the trainers.

cheers

Will

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On 12/8/2017 at 5:49 AM, Graham Boak said:

The Spitfire only had one front fuel tank, although the one in the F.Mk.VIII was larger (deeper) than that on the F.Mk.IX.  However the F Mk.VIII also had a small tank in each wing root, between the leading edge and the spar.  The photo above shows that the wing tank on the Tr.Mk.IX is further outboard, and presumably aft of the front spar.  I would guess that the Tr.Mk.VIII was the same, but maybe not?

Further to malpaso's post,

 

Most Merlin-engined Spitfires had two tanks in front of the cockpit.

On the Spitfire Mk.IX, the top tank was 48 Gallons and the lower tank 37 gallons.

On the Spitfire Mk.VIII, the top tank was 47 gallons and the lower tank was increased to 49 gallons. There was also a 13 gallon tank in each wing LE.

 

The top tank fed into the lower tank from where it was delivered to the engine by an engine driven fuel pump. There was also an immersed electric driven booster pump in the lower tank on A/C with Stromberg carbys for engine starting. (This replaced the wobble pump used on early aircraft). On the Mk.VIII fuel was transferred from the wing tanks to the top fuselage tank by air pressure when the pilot opened the transfer valve.

 

On the T.MK.VIII, the fuselage fuel capacity was reduced to 39 gallons in a single tank, and there were two additional tanks in each wing, the standard 13 gallon tank in the LE and a second tank of 14 gallons behind the main spar and immediately outboard of the undercarriage, (i.e. in the bay previously occupied by the cannon). I suspect that the T.Mk.IX was basically the same, with the exception that the LE tanks were not fitted. It would have been a major modification and not worth the effort.

 

Peter M

Edited by Magpie22
clarified one point
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Hi there,

 

Probably too late to be of any help, but photos of the cockpit area of in-service (as opposed to restored) Irish Air Corps Spitfires are few and far between. However, this video may help - the relevant part starts at 0:50 sec:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llLhBv4kQT4

 

To my eyes, no armour plate fitted to front seat. By default, this would suggest no armour fitted to rear (they were advanced trainers, and besides rear armour would probably put the CG out of limits)

 

As for guns, they were fitted for the 2 outer-most weapons per wing, cannot confirm if all four were fitted all the time, but this photo appears to show deposits on both of the starboard ports:-

 

http://www.accas.info/?page_id=30

 

"163" also appeared to have strengthening plates for rocket rails:-

 

http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1005345/M/Supermarine-VS-509-Spitfire-T9/163/Irish-Air-Corps/

 

I have a photo (somewhere) of one of the Tr9's in its initial delivery scheme with the stubs for the rails fitted but, alas, I've never been able to find a photo of the rails and/or rockets fitted. 

 

As to rest of your queries, AFAIK, normal front canopy & glazing fitted, but moved forward as per previous posts. Fuel tanks - no knowledge.

 

Hope that helps.

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