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Corsairfoxfouruncle

British MBT Group Build

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Hello Fellow modelers ...  We have Four succesful Single type Builds for Armor. The M3/M4, Panzer IV, Tiger tank, And Patton. We also have two Soviet Armor proposal’s in the T 55 and now with the T 34. Let me ask you this question ? Would there be any interest in a Group Build of the Centurion, Chieftain, and Challenger ? This would cover From 1945 to present and each has countless variants and progeny to offer up as options. 

     Im just curious as it seems we have interest in both German and US Armor. Showing signs of some interest in Soviet Armor but no one has offered up British Armor ? I’m proposing this as a group build that will cover British Main Battle Tanks developed and used from 1945 to the Present day. Im always looking for input and help so please feel free to offer ideas and/or constructive criticism, just be polite. If anyone is interested please follow the link.  Please have a great modelling day. 

 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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Chieftain is a great modelling subject, but If you're wanting to start a STGB for a British tank, I think that you'd have more success if you made it Centurion. Just a thought.

If on the other hand (still going down the British subject route), how about a GB for British post war MBT's; Centurion, Chieftain and Challenger 1 & 2. Also, how about British cruiser tanks.

 

John.

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John we think alike I saw the GB thread and I think the Cheiftain is a good choice but I thought the Centurion has a wider usage and Combat History...

 

I also thought what about a British 'C' tanks GB, allowable subjects British Tanks with names starting with C and sub-variants thereof.. Not sure thats a Single type GB but it maybe...

 

You'd get all the main types and more esoteric things like Covenanter, Conqueror and Caernarvon

 

Just a thought....

 

 

 

 

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The Chieftain would be a great subject but, as John and Plasto have said, I think opening it up to the Centurian, Challenger, Conqueror etc would give a far larger playing field for a group build. How about the 'Big C MBT' group build?

 

Andy:cat:

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@Bullbasket , @Plasto, & @AndyRM101 ... Thanks for the Input ! Thats why its marked as testing the waters. Im looking for this kind of feedback. Im still stocking up on info and can easily change from Single Type to standard Group build. 

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Why not have a group build for British main battle tanks from 1st September 1939 until the present day. That covers cruisers, infantry tanks, and all the good post war variants such as Cheiftain, Centurion , Conqueror , challenger etc etc etc.... Eveyone's a winner...

 

MM

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@Soeren ... Hello glad to try and answer this. A group build is a timed build in this case 4 months from opening to close. You can usually have some work already started with the kit but almost never more than 25%. I would think with armor that would cover the tracks alone if you use Aftermarket Individual tracks by companies like Friulmodel. You are usually limited to types and or era’s. In this case post World War Two. You would also need to have a picture hosting ability to do a work in progress. This to show that the kit is mostly instarted As well as the progress and any modifications you are doing. And after the allowed time the Group votes for the favorite and runner ups. If you're interested you can follow the link to the group build section and sign up. Theres nothing set in stone until it gets 30 signatures to move it to  the voting stage in november of 2018. If we survive votes we get the dates for the group build. If not it comes up in 2019. Hope that helps. 

 

@missile-monkey ... World war 2 would qualify for its own Group build with all the variants and sub-types. 

 

There are Four armor group builds in the future group build area. The Sherman/Lee/Grant is first up in December. It starts the 30th of December.

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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There have only been 3 Main Battle tanks in the British Army. Chieftain, Challenger 1 and Challenger 2. 

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@DAG058 ... I can see your point.  However according to wikipedia they list the Centurion as Britains Primary Main Battle Tank in the post World War Two era. I think i will stick with that.

     I understand Wikipedia is questionable to some. For some it is the go to for those who are non intimate with a particular subject. 

Please let me know if you are no longer interested in this. I can remove your name. 

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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8 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

@DAG058 ... I can see your point.  However according to wikipedia they list the Centurion as Britains Primary Main Battle Tank in the post World War Two era. I think i will stick with that.

     I understand Wikipedia is questionable to some. For some it is the go to for those who are non intimate with a particular subject. 

Please let me know if you are no longer interested in this. I can remove your name. 

 

:rofl: Ah Wikipedia, we all know that the information on there is correct. In short Main Battle Tank means a universal tank, of which Chieftain was the first. Prior to Chieftain there were tanks for different roles, dependant on the ability to penetrate armour and manoeuvrability.

 

I will still play but I think the name is misleading.

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Morning Chaps :bye:

I do like group builds, because people have some great ideas, like this one, but you have to wait so damn long, years sometimes, before it can get off the ground.

 

If I may add something to this idea. 

As you say, there are numerous Tank GB's and STGB's on the go or coming up, but very little interest in British Armour. 

But there is so much more than just MBT's. 

Why not open it up to all FV series vehicles? 

I've attached a list from wiki that contains the majority of them.

Just a thought

wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FV_series_military_vehicles

 

Mad Steve 

 

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18 minutes ago, MAD STEVE said:

Morning Chaps :bye:

I do like group builds, because people have some great ideas, like this one, but you have to wait so damn long, years sometimes, before it can get off the ground.

 

If I may add something to this idea. 

As you say, there are numerous Tank GB's and STGB's on the go or coming up, but very little interest in British Armour. 

But there is so much more than just MBT's. 

Why not open it up to all FV series vehicles? 

I've attached a list from wiki that contains the majority of them.

Just a thought

wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FV_series_military_vehicles

 

Mad Steve 

 

A Post war British AFVs group build would certainly open up the choice of subjects. I feel the original Chieftain suggestion was somewhat limited, whilst there are plenty of Accurate Armour Conversions many are out of the reach of many. 

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if its going to be a STGB under the MBT moniker then a tight remit makes sense. If it's a regular GB then a wider scope makes sense to attract more votes in the play offs.

 

Dennis what are you thinking STGB or regular GB??I 

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I did think of British before suggesting the T-34 STGB. I'm glad not to be wrestling this can of worms. If going GB then Post War British Tanks would open up Churchill, Cromwell and Comet which would help those working in scales other than 1/35th.

There is a 1/48 Chieftain out there but the only other I'm aware of is 1/76 Airfix/Milicast.

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Hello all ... I will attempt to address all the good points and questions brought forth here. I will try to do this as best i can please be patient as this will probably be a long post. 

 

@DAG058 ... I Thank you for staying with this build. I agree with you on the wikipedia skepticism. However i am also attempting to appeal to some modelers who may be new. They may be less intimate with the correct terminology for military vehicles. Its possible someone is looking to change from aircraft or ships to armor. Thats my reasoning behind the title. I hope that gives you an idea of my thoughts on this. 

 

@MAD STEVE ... I agree on the Frustration of waiting for a Group build to come to Fruition. @Enzo Matrix is very good at balancing the timing, and i appreciate his hard work. If there were a better way to do group builds im sure he would be doing it that way. That being said initially i was going for the idea of a single tank. But after some thought and feedback it made sense to open it up to other MBT’s. Personally im not a big AFV/APC modeler with exception to Halftracks and M113’s. However if someone were to open a build idea with those as the guidelines, they would probably do well. Do I think this build should open up to AFV/APC types ? Im not sure ? I believe it easier to stick with one specific type MBT’s. Im fair minded though and willing to leave it to the masses, and have a democratic type vote ? 

 

@Threadbear ... I kind of agree with you on the original idea being a bit narrow. Though there are plenty of versions of Chieftains in real life There are fewer models so it would be limited and considerable overlap in the builds. That is why i expanded to the three MBT types since 1945. I hope that helps. 

 

@Plasto ... I would like to go the route of STGB rather than a standard group build. That is why i originally went for the Chieftain. Expanding to Three types I think rules that out ? Unless there is a direct connection by all three types I am unaware of ? Entirely possible as im familiar with all three but not intimately. If i can keep this as a STGB it would be a lot easier to move this forward. If you know of a connection im open to it. That would make it easier to skip the Great November Bunfight. Im hoping that explains to some degree where i am on this.

 

@SleeperService ... I opened this idea originally because i felt a little sad that America and Germany were represented twice. However Russia/Soviets are represented twice and still havent got there quite yet ( I believe they will just slowly ). That and no one has offered the British yet considering this is Britmodeller. 

   Yes I Agree a big can of Worms, I know all three the Churchill, Comet, & Cromwell were WW2 types but did serve post war. Im not sure though as I believe all three were used in WW2. Im trying to limit this to post war creation and time in service. Yes the Centurion was created during the war, but saw little if no use to my knowledge ? Again if you know different I would be happy to change my thoughts on that. I would be glad to look into them. If they fall into the proper ideas for this then the more the merrier. I would also be willing to have a Democratic vote on this issue. If the group opts to include these I am ok with that. Im hoping this gives you an idea of where i am on this. 

 

To all ... please feel free to change my mind and opinions. I encourage discussions like this provided we stay friendly. Im fair minded and willing to change things to make everyone a little more happy. 

 

🔺 - ok a vote on the addition of AFV/APC into this will need to be conducted if enough people want that. 

🔺 - A vote to include The other three “C” Tanks into this build. Comet, Cromwell, & Churchill. That would make it the “C” Type tank build which might fall under the single type category. Will check with Enzo Matrix.

 

Please have a great modeling day. 

 

Dennis

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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36 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I agree with you on the wikipedia skepticism. However i am also attempting to appeal to some modelers who may be new. They may be less intimate with the correct terminology for military vehicles. Its possible someone is looking to change from aircraft or ships to armor. Thats my reasoning behind the title. I hope that gives you an idea of my thoughts on this. 

 

That doesn’t seem right to me. That’s like saying I’m going to hold a Multi Role Aircraft GB but I’ll let in the V-bombers because Wikipedia says that they are multi role and it might make it more appealing to people who don’t know better. 

 

 

 

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Hmmm ... i understand your point. I don't agree though. Using your analogy a strategic bomber is a bomber. Whether its dropping conventional bombs, nuclear, or in some rare instances anti-shipping. Its still area denial not tactical. A multi-role aircraft generally denotes Attack with an air/air, and SEAD capability as a back ups. A multi-role aircraft is used at a tactical not strategic level where you are pin pointing your attacks to specific targets like infantry/armor, a bridge, or suppression of enemy air defenses. If someone were to use a vulcan, valiant, or a victor to try to hit a tank on an open battlefield I’d probably have the pilots head examined. 

 

Noted and counted SleeperService.

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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Personally to keep it simple, I would just keep it as a Chieftain GB, plenty of colour schemes and variants to cater for most and a few good kits to choose from :huh:

 

Apart from the Gun tanks of all the major version covering the history, plus  you have the ARRV and bridge layer types. 

 

Regards

 

Dan 

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@Enzo Matrix ... I have a Question concerning the Single type Vs. Standard Group build themes. If i were to organize this so it included all “C” type tanks. The Comet, Cromwell, Churchill, Centurion, Chieftain, and Challenger. Question is could/would it be able to fall into Single type because they all start with “C”. Or would it have to be a standard group build ? Thanks for any. input

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle

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It would be a standard group build.  There is a linking theme but it encompasses multiple types, many of which have no connection.  Churchills and Cromwells spring to mind.

 

We did a similar thing earlier this year with the Mirage GB.

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2 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hmmm ... i understand your point. I don't agree though. Using your analogy a strategic bomber is a bomber. Whether its dropping conventional bombs, nuclear, or in some rare instances anti-shipping. Its still area denial not tactical. A multi-role aircraft generally denotes Attack with an air/air, and SEAD capability as a back ups. A multi-role aircraft is used at a tactical not strategic level where you are pin pointing your attacks to specific targets like infantry/armor, a bridge, or suppression of enemy air defenses. If someone were to use a vulcan, valiant, or a victor to try to hit a tank on an open battlefield I’d probably have the pilots head examined. 

 

Noted and counted SleeperService.

 

I don’t think you got my point :lol: you aren’t half trying to take this one off on a tangent! 

 

Basically what I’m trying to say is there are only 3 MBT’s that have been in service with the British Army. Naming it a MBT GB/STGB but letting in tanks that aren’t MBTs in just because it would be more popular would be wrong. 

 

@Enzo Matrix help me out mate :suicide:

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If you google it’s not just Wikipedia that deems the Centurion to be a MBT.

 

Tanks encyclopedia seems to think it’s an MBT also...

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/UK/FV-4200_Centurion

 

as do these folk...

 

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=13

 

And these guys at Bovingdon seem to call it a Main Battle Tank as well

 

http://www.tankmuseum.org/museum-online/vehicles/object-e1970-151

 

Here is an interesting explanation of how the Centurion can be considered an MBT..

 

 

Development of the universal tank ceased, and Centurion entered service just as World War II finished, becoming a multi-role vehicle forming the main battle tank force of the British army (and other nations through export). The addition of the 20 pounder gun in 1948 Gave the tank a significant advantage over other tanks of the era.[13] This paved the way for a new tank classification, the main battle tank, and Centurion is considered by many to be the first MBT as designed.

 

Personally given the Centurion saw a lot of actual combat service and is relatively readily available in kit form in a few differing scales which give depth and choice to a GB why not just let it go as is???

 

Thoughts??

 

 

 

Edited by Plasto

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