Yossi Lavon Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Hello The israeli air force was about to get 24 canadian built F-86 Sabre, before the deal was cancelled. there are 2 black & white photos of the aircrafts, and i'm asking for your help regarding the colors. is it a blue-brown scheme or the canadian green-gray? Thanks Yossi https://goo.gl/images/j1XwZ6 https://goo.gl/images/kWr6Lv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 they appear to be(in b&w) in the standard Sabre 6 colours of grey/green/PRU blue. Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossi Lavon Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 Quote Thanks Tony it looks green-grey to me as well, but I saw some blue-brown profiles as well, so just wanted to be sure. some blue-brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 16 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: they appear to be(in b&w) in the standard Sabre 6 colours of grey/green/PRU blue. I'd agree too. M 16 hours ago, lavony said: blue-brown profiles as well, Never trust profiles. Photo evidence all the way but bear in mind the Photoshopping fraternity out there intent on corrupting reality! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmig Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Not all of the Sabres had PRU undersides. The Luftwaffe examples were light grey. So... one more thing to puzzle over! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBee Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 4 hours ago, bobmig said: Not all of the Sabres had PRU undersides. The Luftwaffe examples were light grey. So... one more thing to puzzle over! Bob Luftwaffe Mk 5 PRU Luftwaffe Mk 6 Light Grey (RAL 7001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Fwiw & all the usual caveats in a highly subjective area, that underside colour looks paler than I would expect from PRU Blue, pale grey (silbergrau?) would be more likely to my mind. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The Luftwaffe Sabre 6s were delivered in NMF, Canadair didn't paint them camo, they were painted in Europe. So why would Canadair paint Israeli bound Sabres with Silbergrau ??? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Having chewed it over I'd say it could easily be the older Israeli scheme: http://www.frrom.com/index.php?page=frrom-fr021-2 Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 But then the Mysteres that did get purchased, did get delivered in N M F. still thinkin’ that it is standard Sabre 6 colours. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: The Luftwaffe Sabre 6s were delivered in NMF, Canadair didn't paint them camo, they were painted in Europe. So why would Canadair paint Israeli bound Sabres with Silbergrau ??? Tony I had mistakenly thought from posts 5 - 6 above these were to be ex Luftwaffe machines from the discussion on Luftwaffe colours. On going back to the OPs second link, I see they were to be ex RCAF. Either way, it doesn't look like PRU blue on the undersides, more like a light grey of some persuasion IMHO. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossi Lavon Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 Hi According to the original instructions of the kit, the colors (for the canadian version) are: Gunze H-330 / HUMBROL 163 (FS34079) Gunze H-331 / HUMBROL 166 (FS 36173) Gunze H-333 / HUMBROL 164 (FS 36118) yossi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 hours ago, stevehnz said: had mistakenly thought from posts 5 - 6 above these were to be ex Luftwaffe machines from the discussion on Luftwaffe colours. On going back to the OPs second link, I see they were to be ex RCAF. Either way, it doesn't look like PRU blue on the undersides, more like a light grey of some persuasion IMHO. I'd say the pattern doesn't even look Canadian. My view, and I'd bow to Tony and SabreJet, is that these are painted in a liht grey underside with uppers in a green/tan mix. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I'm with Tony: I do have a photo of an Israeli CL-13 but cannot locate it, so this will have to do: Now compare to a factory-fresh RCAF Sabre from the same period: certainly the same scheme, and I'd lay bets on the colours being the same too: Final clincher for me: look at a Colombian Sabre 6, fresh from the factory - still the same scheme: And one in colour before they were repainted: 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I certainly agree with your conclusions on the photos you have shown, which also appear to match the 2nd link Yossi posted in the 1st post, his 1st link though appears to show a different aircraft or at least one with a different camo pattern & somewhat lighter undersides. I've no way of knowing how many aircraft were involved & marked up thus way but it appears more than one. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 06/12/2017 at 5:23 PM, lavony said: https://goo.gl/images/j1XwZ6 Yes, SJ, but this one is nothing like that. Any ideas? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Aha! That's similar to the shot I have. Will let you know if I find anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Could it be that one was further along in its preparation for sale, IDF serial & colour scheme? I found a post on a flight sim forum which said 8 aircraft had had work done on them before the contract was cancelled, supposedly because of the Suez crisis. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmig Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 15 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: So why would Canadair paint Israeli bound Sabres with Silbergrau ??? Just a shot-in-the-dark here, but surely the customer would decide what colours they want their aircraft painted. This being the case, the scheme could well be neither 'standard' nor Luftwaffe. Barring specs or a colour photo, we may never know! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I think if you look at the German a/c, they were delivered in NMF and painted (if memory serves) by Dornier upon arrival in Germany. SAAF Sabre 6s were also despatched in NMF though they did remain that way in South Africa for a few years. And while I can't say for sure, the Canadair ethos seemed to be 'you can either have RCAF camo or NMF'. Therefore my feeling is that if Israel had needed their Sabre 6s camouflaged they'd probably have been delivered in NMF and painted by a subcontractor. Still no idea what that second colour scheme is, but I'd err towards green/gray uppers (as per the standard RCAF) and light gray underside. Bear in mind that the Israel deal was done via an agent in Germany called MEREX, so maybe there is a link to the Luftwaffe Sabre 6 scheme? Clutching at straws a bit however. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Im thinking the OP never realized the can of worms this would open. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 14 hours ago, lavony said: Hi According to the original instructions of the kit, the colors (for the canadian version) are: Gunze H-330 / HUMBROL 163 (FS34079) Gunze H-331 / HUMBROL 166 (FS 36173) Gunze H-333 / HUMBROL 164 (FS 36118) yossi What kit gives those, as Canadian colours of the day are not in the FS range. The Grey/green might be close, but not for the underside PRU blue. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossi Lavon Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said: What kit gives those, as Canadian colours of the day are not in the FS range. The Grey/green might be close, but not for the underside PRU blue. Cheers, Tony First, thanks everyone for the interesting debate!! The kit is Hasegawa. The instructions give only the gunze colors. The rest is my interpretation…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Edmundson Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I've liked the Humbrol PRU blue-HX-3 or the discontinued Humbrol #124. I can't find it in any other range, anybody have a different source for PRU blue Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Humbrol 230 or Colourcoats ACRN14, you might have better luck with humbrol in Canada Tony, 230 is a decent match to the MAP chip in the RAF museum book though I'm not sure if the postwar PRU differed to the Wartime shade . Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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