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Israeli F-86 Sabre colors?


Yossi Lavon

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Hello

The israeli air force was about to get 24 canadian built F-86 Sabre, before the deal was cancelled.

there are 2 black & white photos of the aircrafts, and i'm asking for your help regarding the colors.

is it a blue-brown scheme or the canadian green-gray?

Thanks

Yossi

 

https://goo.gl/images/j1XwZ6

 

https://goo.gl/images/kWr6Lv

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16 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said:

they appear to be(in b&w) in the standard Sabre 6 colours of grey/green/PRU blue.

 

I'd agree too.

 

M

16 hours ago, lavony said:

blue-brown profiles as well,

 

Never trust profiles. Photo evidence all the way but bear in mind the Photoshopping fraternity out there intent on corrupting reality!

 

Martin

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4 hours ago, bobmig said:

Not all of the Sabres had PRU undersides. The Luftwaffe examples were light grey. So... one more thing to puzzle over!

Bob

Luftwaffe Mk 5 PRU

Luftwaffe Mk 6 Light Grey (RAL 7001)

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4 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said:

The Luftwaffe Sabre 6s were delivered in NMF, Canadair didn't paint them camo, they were painted in Europe.

 

So why would Canadair paint Israeli bound Sabres with Silbergrau ???

 

Tony

I had mistakenly thought from posts 5 - 6 above these were to be ex Luftwaffe machines from the discussion on Luftwaffe colours. On going back to the OPs second link, I see they were to be ex RCAF. Either way, it doesn't look like PRU blue on the undersides, more like a light grey of some persuasion IMHO.

Steve.

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Hi

According to the original instructions of the kit, the colors (for the canadian version) are:

Gunze H-330 / HUMBROL 163 (FS34079)

Gunze H-331 / HUMBROL 166 (FS 36173)      

Gunze H-333 / HUMBROL 164 (FS 36118)

 

yossi

 

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2 hours ago, stevehnz said:

had mistakenly thought from posts 5 - 6 above these were to be ex Luftwaffe machines from the discussion on Luftwaffe colours. On going back to the OPs second link, I see they were to be ex RCAF. Either way, it doesn't look like PRU blue on the undersides, more like a light grey of some persuasion IMHO.

 

I'd say the pattern doesn't even look Canadian. My view, and I'd bow to Tony and SabreJet, is that these are painted in a liht grey underside with uppers in a green/tan mix.

 

Martin

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I'm with Tony: I do have a photo of an Israeli CL-13 but cannot locate it, so this will have to do:

 

isr

 

Now compare to a factory-fresh RCAF Sabre from the same period: certainly the same scheme, and I'd lay bets on the colours being the same too:

 

xx

  

Final clincher for me: look at a Colombian Sabre 6, fresh from the factory - still the same scheme:

 

colom2

 

And one in colour before they were repainted:

 

colom

 

 

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I certainly agree with your conclusions on the photos you have shown, which also appear to match the 2nd link Yossi posted in the 1st post, his 1st link though appears to show a different aircraft or at least one with a different camo pattern & somewhat lighter undersides. I've no way of knowing how many aircraft were involved & marked up thus way but it appears more than one.

Steve.

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Could it be that one was further along in its preparation for sale, IDF serial & colour scheme? I found a post on a flight sim forum which said 8 aircraft had had work done on them before the contract was cancelled, supposedly because of the Suez crisis.

Steve.

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15 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said:

So why would Canadair paint Israeli bound Sabres with Silbergrau ???

Just a shot-in-the-dark here, but surely the customer would decide what colours they want their aircraft painted. This being the case, the scheme could well be neither 'standard' nor Luftwaffe. Barring specs or a colour photo, we may never know!

Bob

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I think if you look at the German a/c, they were delivered in NMF and painted (if memory serves) by Dornier upon arrival in Germany. SAAF Sabre 6s were also despatched in NMF though they did remain that way in South Africa for a few years.

 

And while I can't say for sure, the Canadair ethos seemed to be 'you can either have RCAF camo or NMF'. Therefore my feeling is that if Israel had needed their Sabre 6s camouflaged they'd probably have been delivered in NMF and painted by a subcontractor.

 

Still no idea what that second colour scheme is, but I'd err towards green/gray uppers (as per the standard RCAF) and light gray underside. Bear in mind that the Israel deal was done via an agent in Germany called MEREX, so maybe there is a link to the Luftwaffe Sabre 6 scheme? Clutching at straws a bit however.

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14 hours ago, lavony said:

Hi

According to the original instructions of the kit, the colors (for the canadian version) are:

Gunze H-330 / HUMBROL 163 (FS34079)

Gunze H-331 / HUMBROL 166 (FS 36173)      

Gunze H-333 / HUMBROL 164 (FS 36118)

 

yossi

 

What kit gives those, as Canadian colours of the day are not in the FS range.  The Grey/green might be close, but not for the underside PRU blue.

 

Cheers, Tony

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2 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said:

What kit gives those, as Canadian colours of the day are not in the FS range.  The Grey/green might be close, but not for the underside PRU blue.

 

Cheers, Tony

First,  thanks everyone for the interesting debate!! 

The kit is Hasegawa.  

The instructions give only the gunze colors.  The rest is my interpretation…. 

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Humbrol 230 or Colourcoats ACRN14, you might have better luck with humbrol in Canada Tony, 230 is a decent match to the MAP chip in the RAF museum book though I'm not sure if the postwar PRU differed to the Wartime shade .

Steve.

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