Seawinder Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Working on Hauptfleisch's plane, EV421/DB-H. Although a late model Kittyhawk Ia with enlarged fin and flared exhausts, the one photo I've ever seen of it clearly shows no fuselage radio mast. It's probably a best guess situation, but I'll ask it anyway: what would have been the most likely radio antenna array: two wires (fin to wing tips) or three wires (fin to wing tips and fin to fuselage spine)? TIA, Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 If the A/C was equipped with HF, I'd go for a wire from the insulator on the dorsal fuselage to an insulator attached by cable to the fin leading edge. From that insulator two wires ran to insulators attached by cable to each wing, at the station where the wingtips were fitted to the mainplane , (and slightly aft of the chord-wise position of the nav lights). If that's no clearer than mud, PM me and try and explain a little more clearly. Peter M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 9 hours ago, Magpie22 said: If the A/C was equipped with HF, I'd go for a wire from the insulator on the dorsal fuselage to an insulator attached by cable to the fin leading edge. From that insulator two wires ran to insulators attached by cable to each wing, at the station where the wingtips were fitted to the mainplane , (and slightly aft of the chord-wise position of the nav lights). If that's no clearer than mud, PM me and try and explain a little more clearly. Peter M Yes, that's much clearer than mud, thanks -- pretty much what I referred to above as "three wire" configuration. So I guess the question for which there isn't a clear answer is, was the plane equipped with HF radio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) On RAF Kittyhawk, 3 wire aerial indicate the use of TR9D, HF radio, 4,3 to 6,6Mc/s or MHz BS_w Edited December 5, 2017 by BS_w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 6 hours ago, BS_w said: On RAF Kittyhawk, 3 wire aerial indicate the use of TR9D, HF radio, 4,3 to 6,6Mc/s or MHz BS_w Yes, I understand that, thanks, but it still begs the question of whether or not Kittyhawk Ia's in that time period were generally equipped with the HF radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Seawinder said: Yes, I understand that, thanks, but it still begs the question of whether or not Kittyhawk Ia's in that time period were generally equipped with the HF radio. P 40E-1's delivered to the RNZAF early 1942 (from RAF orders) had the SCR-274N radio command set which was UHF. The US company Bendex radio, were given rights to copy the British UHF system resulting in the 4 channel SCR-522 radio set which began to be installed to be installed in combat aircraft mid 1942. Since the SCR-522 was a joint British/US venture it would be fair to say both Air Forces used it. make of it what you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 13 hours ago, LDSModeller said: P 40E-1's delivered to the RNZAF early 1942 (from RAF orders) had the SCR-274N radio command set which was UHF. The US company Bendex radio, were given rights to copy the British UHF system resulting in the 4 channel SCR-522 radio set which began to be installed to be installed in combat aircraft mid 1942. Since the SCR-522 was a joint British/US venture it would be fair to say both Air Forces used it. make of it what you will Hi LDSM. Going by an SCR-522 manual I found online, it called for a vertical antenna mast (similar, I suppose, to Spitfires by the time of the Mk. V). Hauptfleisch's Kittyhawk Ia clearly didn't have a mast, so I figure it was equipped with TR9D, which required wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 H87A2 & A3 Tomahawk I, had provision for TR9D or TR 1133 , and sometime R3003 P40E, E1 : SCR 283 or SCR 274 or SCR 522 and SCR 515 or SCR 535 or SCR 595 TR1133 and SCR522 use mast antenna TR9D, SCR 283 : 3 wires (1 wire to "V antenna") SCR 274 had aerial wire between mast antenna(or top fuselage) and tail fin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 44 minutes ago, BS_w said: H87A2 & A3 Tomahawk I, had provision for TR9D or TR 1133 , and sometime R3003 P40E, E1 : SCR 283 or SCR 274 or SCR 522 and SCR 515 or SCR 535 or SCR 595 TR1133 and SCR522 use mast antenna TR9D, SCR 283 : 3 wires (1 wire to "V antenna") SCR 274 had aerial wire between mast antenna(or top fuselage) and tail fin. That's very helpful, thanks. If I read your data correctly, the radio on Hauptfleisch's Kittyhawk Iz (P-40E-1) was therefore SCR 283, which would confirm the wire from fuselage and antenna wires to both wing tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 3 hours ago, BS_w said: H87A2 & A3 Tomahawk I, had provision for TR9D or TR 1133 , and sometime R3003 P40E, E1 : SCR 283 or SCR 274 or SCR 522 and SCR 515 or SCR 535 or SCR 595 TR1133 and SCR522 use mast antenna TR9D, SCR 283 : 3 wires (1 wire to "V antenna") SCR 274 had aerial wire between mast antenna(or top fuselage) and tail fin. What do you classify as a mast? The RNZAF P 40E-1's had no mast on Fuselage but had the SCR-274N radio command set This photo (in Link) shows an RNZAF P40E-1 -still with RAF Serial - no mast, but fitted with SCR-174N radio set RNZAF P40E-1 with RAF Serial This RNZAF P40E-1 is ET433 no mast, but 3 wires from tail fin to point on fuselage and wings and has the SCR-247N Set RNZAF P40E-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, LDSModeller said: What do you classify as a mast? The RNZAF P 40E-1's had no mast on Fuselage but had the SCR-274N radio command set yes, curious.... may be fitted with TR9? the 3 wires antenna could be used for receiver MN 31 also Edited December 7, 2017 by BS_w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 12/8/2017 at 8:57 AM, BS_w said: yes, curious.... may be fitted with TR9? the 3 wires antenna could be used for receiver MN 31 also No TR9 series Have read of the following link scrolling down to a post by David Duxbury who is one of the Technical Experts at the RNZAF Museum. http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?10540-Question-Kittyhawk-I-gunsight Also for the OP, read the last post about "Appendix A" Equipment - including radios - the Use of TRD9 most likely scenario though the TR9 while HF had a shorter range 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 I appreciate all the responses -- never knew there were so many different radios in use. I think, no matter which one was installed in Hauptfleisch's plane, the "three wire" configuration will be a safe bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 In 1942, tropical Spitfire Mk.VCs were fitted with TR9D rather than the later radios in use in the UK. This suggests that only HF radios were available in the overseas theatres of operation, so this is exactly what would be required on P-40s and all other aircraft in the Mediterranean theatre. Basically, you can have whatever radio you like in an aircraft but it is only useful if it operates on the same frequencies as the local ground stations, and other users. The re-equipping of entire theatres would take time, but the switch-over would need to be co-ordinated. Presumably two (or more) systems could run in parallel for some time to allow for the conversion of every aircraft/unit in each theatre. Not a subject I've seen discussed beyond the aircraft specifications, and raises questions such as did fighters arriving as a result of Operation Torch have the same radios as those in the Western Desert?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) Hi Graeme, In line with your Spitfire comments, the RAF 339E Buffalo also had the TR9D fitted after arrival in Singapore/Malaya. Originally the Specs stated either TR9D or TR1133A set could be used in the Buffalo - these photos shows though, that there was only a two Aerial system for the TR9D one to a mast as in first photo and secondary to a connector portside aft of the rear glasshouse as in the second photo (yes for all and sundry the photo is colourised) The TR1133A system would have required a mast under the aircraft Something for the OP to think about is if going with a TR9D set is the installation of an RAF Remote Contact indicator somewhere in the cockpit (starboard or Port side wall or below Instrument panel), as this was an integral part of TR9D system (Photo used for illustration purposes only) Edited December 9, 2017 by LDSModeller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 @LDSMod, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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