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TSR Weapons Testing


tc2324

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There's a couple (at least) of photos of XR226 in the scrapping area at Weybridge that appear to show the outline of camera fairings similar to XR220's so I suspect she'd also be part of the weapons testing programme.  Unfortunately I can't presently get at my copy of "Britain's Lost Bomber" to confirm or deny this.

 

AFAICR XR221 was the avionics trials lead and, inter alia, XR225 was aerodynamics, including trials with the canopies off to simulate  pre-meditated ejection conditions.

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8 hours ago, canberra kid said:

Is this the photo @stever219? I have no idea which airframes these are but the one I've circled has the same camera fit as XR220.

oYcFCj.jpg

John

Yes John, it's one of them.  There's a colour image of the still-intact fuselage up on a dummy undercarriage which shows the serial more clearly.  I'm not sure if there's also a colour version of this image that also shows it more clearly, despite the efforts of the fire section to open up number 3 tank there.  I think there's another one on the web somewhere showing the port side installation before it was torched off from intake lip to engine-face bulkhead.

 

I wonder if the fuselage in the background is XR224: it has the undercarriage installed but appears less complete than XR223 was reputed to be at cancellation.  XR225 had already gone to Salmesbury for final assembly and was in the fuselage join up jig on April 6th 1965.

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9 hours ago, canberra kid said:

Is this the photo @stever219? I have no idea which airframes these are but the one I've circled has the same camera fit as XR220.

oYcFCj.jpg

John

I’m going to cry... 😢😭😡

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John, have to say those pics and the information is fantastic and thank you very much. Indeed a big thank you to you others who responded.

 

I`m building an `inflight` bomb lobbing test with the kits Red Beard bomb so admittedly the cameras on the side would be on no use as the bomb bay is the main area of concern. I may move the side cameras and place them underneath?

 

Colour scheme giving me a head ache though. 

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26 minutes ago, tc2324 said:

 

I`m building an `inflight` bomb lobbing test with the kits Red Beard bomb so admittedly the cameras on the side would be on no use as the bomb bay is the main area of concern. I may move the side cameras and place them underneath?

 

Colour scheme giving me a head ache though. 

Alternatively how about a pair of underwing camera pods on pylons at Station 155, or scabbed onto the wing at that location?  They could then be angled inwards towards the weapons bay to capture the initial flight path of the weapon.  This could also take advantage of the wiring (or at least it's routing) within the wing that would need to be there for stores carriage, fusing (if appropriate) and release.

 

I think that John's photo at post 9 above shows (one of) the mock-up(s): XR220 doesn't presently have pylons  fitted and all of the photos I've seen of her show her without them.  XR226's wings were still under construction, but not far from completion, at Salmesbury on cancellation day (again there are photos of the wing line showing XR227's wings in an advanced stage of construction at the same time), so could potentially have been the first set to be fitted with pylons.

Edited by stever219
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I hope that John’s photo is of a mock up, given the casual way that a Redbeard (?) has been left lying around on the floor!

 

Graham

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2 hours ago, canberra kid said:

I was thinking on the same line's Graham

John

I wonder if that photo was taken post-cancellation: the way that the Red Beard mock up is rolling around loose on the floor and the bits of discarded structure and bang seat dummy are also just lying around suggests that someone had given up caring and was just waiting for the bin men to arrive.

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Just a quicky to show you what I`ve done so far and the reason for the question. 

 

38804252101_321381a43f_c.jpg 

 

Scheme is a hybrid of test types for the period and there`s plenty more work to do.

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2 hours ago, Stimpy said:

So this completely de-bunks the story I was told by an ex Rolls-Royce employee that they designed the Aircraft first with no idea where to put the weapons. I have to admit I was doubtful!

You have every reason to be doubtful, if you're building a combat aircraft I would guess the weapons would be quite high on the list of things to at least start planning early on, I'm sure things change and evolve during the process though.

 

John 

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10 minutes ago, tc2324 said:

Just a quicky to show you what I`ve done so far and the reason for the question. 

 

38804252101_321381a43f_c.jpg 

 

Scheme is a hybrid of test types for the period and there`s plenty more work to do.

That's looking good @tc2324 The camera under the fuselage would work but it would only have a limited view of the drop, you could consider a pod mounted system like in the attached photo this would give a better cover of the drop.

oY0sgX.jpgJohn 

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6 hours ago, Stimpy said:

So this completely de-bunks the story I was told by an ex Rolls-Royce employee that they designed the Aircraft first with no idea where to put the weapons. I have to admit I was doubtful!

I should think that many people at Rolls Royce at the time  would have a less-than-positive attitude to TSR 2: RR had been BAC's first choice as engine supplier (at both Warton and Weybridge) but MoD's predecessors decided the Bristol Siddeley should get the job.  RR had also been worshipping at the shrine of Boeing since the late fifties, promising them that the Conway could deliver 22,500 lbs of thrust for the 707, as it did for the Victor B. 2, but it couldn't for Vickers' V.1000/VC7.  When HSA also went to BS for the Harrier and P.1154 engines RR saw red and bought them out, leaving themselves catastrophically under-funded when they needed money to dig themselves out of the can of worms that the problems with RB211 development deposited them in.

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On 02/12/2017 at 8:46 PM, tc2324 said:

John, have to say those pics and the information is fantastic and thank you very much. Indeed a big thank you to you others who responded.

 

I`m building an `inflight` bomb lobbing test with the kits Red Beard bomb so admittedly the cameras on the side would be on no use as the bomb bay is the main area of concern. I may move the side cameras and place them underneath?

 

Colour scheme giving me a head ache though. 

Just a quick one, If I recall the TSR-s was supposed to be the prime delivery system for the WE 177 weapon not the red beard, which would of been out of use when TSR-2 was slated to enter  service.

 

Selwyn

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