72modeler Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I just stumbled upon this one; some interesting footage of trains being strafed. Check out the Mustang Mk 1's with the fairing doors up, but the flaps down! Enjoy! Mike 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, 72modeler said: I just stumbled upon this one; some interesting footage of trains being strafed. Check out the Mustang Mk 1's with the fairing doors up, but the flaps down! Enjoy! Mike Great fun and some interesting stuff. In relation to the fairing doors, apparently the early model Mustangs had a different hydraulic system to the later models. So the gear doors stayed up on the ground. The reason the pressure is released causing the doors to drop on the later models was it seems to prevent inadvertent gear retraction on the ground. I wonder if that was a problem with the early models? The film makers also certainly used up all the 'artistic licence' on this one. I love the way the Mustangs magically turned into Hurricanes during the train 'attack'. One even suddenly sprouted cannons where none were there before. Obviously staged the 'Germans' on board were wearing first world war helmets and carrying British weapons. Must have been fun to film. Thanks for the link. Edited November 29, 2017 by noelh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Hi great mixed footage Most likely staged, but it was possible it could be second line troops with captured weapons, the lee enfield for example was the gewehr 281(e) in german service, plenty captured in france 1940 with ammo and other weapons/vehicles cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 hours ago, noelh said: Great fun and some interesting stuff. In relation to the fairing doors, apparently the early model Mustangs had a different hydraulic system to the later models. So the gear doors stayed up on the ground. The reason the pressure is released causing the doors to drop on the later models was it seems to prevent inadvertent gear retraction on the ground. I wonder if that was a problem with the early models? The film makers also certainly used up all the 'artistic licence' on this one. I love the way the Mustangs magically turned into Hurricanes during the train 'attack'. One even suddenly sprouted cannons where none were there before. Obviously staged the 'Germans' on board were wearing first world war helmets and carrying British weapons. Must have been fun to film. Thanks for the link. IIRC, the Merlin-powered P-51's did not have a safety switch that sensed weight on the undercart, preventing inadvertent retraction while on the ground in the event the landing gear lever was moved. Because of this, it was advisable to use the fairing door release lever to bleed the pressure from the hydraulic system so the undercart could not be retracted accidentally while on the ground. The Allison powered Mustangs evidently had the WOW (weight on wheels) sensor, so there was no need to release hydraulic system pressure- thus their fairing doors would remain up and locked upon shutdown, but could be released for maintenance. I think I did read somewhere that the uplocks on the D models were strengthened at some point in production after several fatal accidents caused by the landing gear partially deploying into the slipstream while in flight, due to weak uplocks, with subsequent failure of the wing. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColFord Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 A typical wartime newsreel designed for the population at home in Canada. It features footage that I can identify from a whole range of footage that originally came from that taken by a number of newsreel companies. As a start there is footage originally taken by British Pathe, Movietone News, Paramount News, Air Ministry Photographic Unit cameramen, RAF Photographic Unit, and others. Some of it appeared also in the RAF service newsreels "The Gen". The low flying Mustang Mk.1s shown at about the 1 minute 20 second mark shooting up trucks and buses at very low level was filmed at RAF Snailwell on 20 November 1942 and involved aircraft of No.268 Squadron RAF. If you are looking for similar, but maybe more consistent footage of Mustangs strafing trains, check the British Pathe website for "Train Busting Mustangs" and the DVD set from the IWM of the RAF Wartime newsreels "The Gen". Again these use footage from different units taken on different dates spliced together to present the required storyline. Regards, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 The Hurricanes in the footage taken on the train from the "German" side did not have spinners so I'd conclude this footage was shot in Canada using HWE Hurricanes. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Crimea River said: The Hurricanes in the footage taken on the train from the "German" side did not have spinners so I'd conclude this footage was shot in Canada using HWE Hurricanes. Andy Well spotted! I noticed the spinnerless Hurricanes too. Interesting footage nevertheless. I think the ground scenes of the Allison powered Mustang 1as were done at Dunsfold??/ They were there once the airfield(built by Canadians) was open. They don't make 'em like that any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Don't know Paul but it's possible I guess. As Colin pointed out, there are multiple sources for this film. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I recall some controversy at the time of the making of the B of B film regarding the role Christopher Plummer played as a Canadian officer( I know he is Canadian anyway ). The issue was the question of whether RCAF officers at the time wore the CANADA flash on the shoulders of their uniforms or not. The above clip clearly proves that this was the case! I expect the issue was solved at the time of the film but it is worth seeing the proof rather than just talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 The bit I liked was about the "Crack" Canadian Band, bet that put fear into the enemy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Because "Canada" and other shoulder tags were worn later in the war does not mean that they were carried as early as the BoB. Not that I know when they were introduced, but I don't think that the various Commonwealth/Dominion pilots wore them prewar. You don't normally see Sailor Malan with "South Africa" tags, for example. (Or may be you do, and I just hadn't noticed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZP Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) The "Canada" flashes were worn during the Battle of Britain. Here is a photo of "#1 Squadron RCAF" at Northolt on September 13, 1940, Squadron Leader Ernie McNab in the centre. Pre-war, I'm not so sure, I'd have to do some more digging. Edited December 1, 2017 by RZP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Maybe it wasn't official and something of a private add on until later. Unofficial badges in the military is nothing new. My old infantry reserve unit had an unofficial badge and a rather nifty maroon cravat. I do get the impression that the Canadians are a very proud people who like ensure no one ever mistakes them for Americans or Brits. Any Canadian members to back that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZP Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) The nationality shoulder flashes were officially sanctioned and regulated by the RAF, I just don't have my references with me at the moment. Not sure when they were introduced but certainly early enough that you'll see all nationalities during the Battle of Britain period besides "Canada"..."Poland", "Czechoslovakia", "New Zealand", etc... Antoni Glowacki being debriefed during the BoB while with 501 Squadron (this particular patch was for NCOs): And no, we're very careful to make sure we are clearly labelled as Canadians, and not one of those others. :-) Edited December 1, 2017 by RZP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) Australians went to great lengths to keep their Dark Blue uniforms and only went to the RAF Blue/Grey when they literally fell apart , you can usually tell Australians in a Sqn group shot because of the darker uniform (as well as the "Australia" flash) Edited December 1, 2017 by Sydhuey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 1:05 PM, noelh said: I do get the impression that the Canadians are a very proud people who like ensure no one ever mistakes them for Americans or Brits. Any Canadian members to back that up? Proud YES, and definitely NOT American please! Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Definitely got that! Once in Dublin, Ireland that is. I came across a damsel in distress. A cyclist with a puncture. I stopped to help and I picked up a 'North American accent'. But I'm good at accents and asked if she was Canadian. Well she practically hugged me. I know the feeling being Irish. Try explaining to people in most of Asia that you're from a country they've never heard of. I've even met immigrants here who thought they were in part of the UK. Language difficulties mostly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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