Brandy Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, 71chally said: Edit, just noticed that those molded in strengthening strips are depicted on the wing undersides, they should only be on the upper surfaces. I have a horrible feeling Massimo......from looking back at previous posts, that those strengthening strips are only moulded on the underside, and that you may have the hinge on the wrong side.....the aerofoil section at the hinge certainly makes it look that way...I hope it's just a trick of the camera! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I think that they are molded on both sides of the wings Ian. Another thing that I would personally do is reduce the thickness of them a bit, same as the fuselage side straps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntPhillips Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Superb micro-engineering, if this project continues in this vein, then this thread is going to be pure inspiration. Oh for a Gannet AEW in 1/48 😉 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 @71chally @limeypilot Thanks for spotting something which may have to be corrected! The problem is I don't understand what parts you're referring to. Following your comments, I double checked the wings , comparing them to the pictures, and found out the position of the locking pins' housings I glued to the middle sections' top, should be fitted opposite to the hinges on the outer wing sections. I agree with the thickness of the front plates, but I thought to glue them first and sand them down a bit later. I named the upper and lower sides on the pictures for a better understanding. My understanding is that the bending system works as follows: The inner wing sections are fix and fixed tothe fuselage. The middle section folds up from the fix wing sections and thus the fulcrum (hinges) must be on the upper side of the wing. The outer section folds down from the middle section and thus the fulcrum (hinges) must be on the lower side of the wing. The parts I've worked on are the junction between the middle section and the outer one, thus the hinges are on the lower side of both sections. These are the pictures i used as a reference: Apart from the locking system and the front plate thickness I don't understand what you mean. Could you please have another look and possibly mark the parts you see wrong on the pictures? this will be of great help. With your help, I spotted the wrong position of the locking pins' housings, but you've got to forgive me as ...you know...anything is possible as wine has been literally flowing during these cold days!!! ...and...while I'm here, a small update... tonight ... PIZZAAAAAAAAA!!!!! ciao Massimo 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Hi Massimo, These are the strengthening strips that @71chally is referring to. I'm so glad that the hinges are the right way round! it must have been a trick of the camera which made the aerofoil section appear flatter on the top of the wing in your pics. Ian 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 A timely reminder that the Frog wings dont have that much detail and it would have been easy to overlook them Noted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 5 hours ago, limeypilot said: Hi Massimo, These are the strengthening strips that @71chally is referring to. I'm so glad that the hinges are the right way round! it must have been a trick of the camera which made the aerofoil section appear flatter on the top of the wing in your pics. Ian Hi Ian, now I see what you and James meant! On Sword's model, those strenthening strips are moulded on either side of the wings' middle section and they ARE quite thick!!! Good point, as I hadn't noticed if on the real thing they are fitted to both sides oor just on the upper one. I'll check the pictures again and eventually delete them on the lower side. So, just to double check if I got the full picture, these are the next steps: remove the locking pins' housings from the top side of the wings' middle sections, reduce the strengthening plates' thickness on the wings' middle sections' top side, check the presence of the strengthening plates on the wings' middle sections' bottom side and delete them if they're missing or reduce their thickness if they're fitted. As already pointed out by James in a previous intervention, the thickness will have to be reduced on most of the strengthening plates, even thse on the fuselage. Thank you both for the intervention and please keep watching as it's very easy to miss something! Ciao Massimo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Hi guys, I did some research and from most of the pictures I found on the net, the strenthening plates seem to have been fitted to both sides of the wings' middle sections. The problem is: were they fitted since the machines were built and to all of them or were thy added later during the aircraft's life? Strengthening plates have appeared on many aircraft types when a problem came up,but normally if a problem was detected and a solution found, it was extended on all aircraft, depending on the seriousness of the problem, or it may have been applied as the machines were overhauled. Looking at the pictures, I was quite sure they're there, but then I realized most of them were depicting the same aircraft!!! Anyway, info are welcome, but considering the period this thread is depicting,(late 70's) I think by that time most aircraft may have been equipped with those strengthening plates, thus...I'll thin them down but leave them there, they'll add some dynamism to the wings paintwork. Of course , should anyone have more accurate info, I'll consider them, but for now...I'll leave them on. Ciao Massimo 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Reducing their look is a good idea, as is modelling the one you have most pictures of Seeing the fold reminds me never to model an Osprey, that would be a lifetime of nightmares... 😧 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJP Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Hello massimo - Looking at a photo of a line up of 849 squadron Gannets on Perdu’s Gannet build page 4 it is interesting to note the outer wing panels when folded sit up at a higher angle on the AEW3 airframe than on the COD Gannet CJP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) ...you are right @massimo! Even on '500 that I am completely familiar with! Fairey Gannet AEW.3 XL500 G-KAEW 6 Jan 16 by James Thomas, on Flickr What caught me out is that the underside strips are more hidden under the large electrical de-icing mats - they look less distinct than the upper strips in your photos. Note in my shot here the de-icing mats are removed and show the strips better. My understanding is that the strips were introduced on all variants that were still in service during a major refurbishment programme at Westlands, the AEWs also getting the fuselage straps in the same period during late 1960s early '70s. I agree with Perdu, in that I would reduce the thickness of the upper strips, and 'soften' the underside ones. From what you are saying with the wing folds, I would say that you are 100% correct. @CJP you are correct with the fold angle differences, and there are slight overall span and folded height differences. There is 3ft more height at the folded wingtips of the AEW over the AS types. Edited December 31, 2017 by 71chally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 39 minutes ago, 71chally said: @CJP you are correct with the fold angle differences, and there are slight overall span and folded height differences. There is 3ft more height at the folded wingtips of the AEW over the AS types. Isn’t that mostly to do with longer undercarriage to accommodate the radar? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Isn’t that mostly to do with longer undercarriage to accommodate the radar? The AEWs longer stroke undercarriage is stored within the existing stub-wing section, and has pre-shortening mechs to reduce the retracted length, the published 14' 9" wheel track is actually 1" less than the AS types. I think the folded wing angles and geometry is more dictated by the relative position and height of the fuselage and the rest pads of the two Gannet types. I've never been able to measure the stub-wings / centre section span to compare between the AS and AEWs, the published folded spans are measured across the folded wing tips as their span is a bit greater than the stub-wings. Basically I'm not sure where the extra span of the AEW is made up, but it makes up for the lost wing area in stub-wing straight leading edges. The stub-wing of the AEW also lack the leading edge sweep and fuel tanks of the earlier types. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! When you're used to get up at 6AM.....you just get up at 6 AM!!! Back home, this morning I did a couple of quick works on the wings' sections: First I filed and sanded down the strengthening plates on both sides of the wings. Then I glued the locating pins on the outer sections and gave a wash to highlight the panel lines and the detail. In the last couple of days,I got a heavy flew. thus I think Today I'll stay in bed and concentrate on my reading!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! Massimo 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hope you get well soon, can't wait for the next installment! I will explain about the wing deicing mats sometime. Happy New Year to you and your family! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Massimo, take a break, for heaven's sake! We don't want you to get sick and besides, I can't quite keep up! Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, 71chally said: I will explain about the wing deicing mats sometime. I was going to ask you about them, as It's the first time I hear about them!!! Whenever you want...I'm listening!!! And any other interesting info about this aircraft is welcomed!!! Ciao Massimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 You may have noticed that service Gannet AEWs have black lines painted on the engine cowling, fin & finlets leading edges and wing & tailplane leading edges and undersides, these show the aft edges of the electrical de-icing mats. They were unique to the AEW due to its operating height and long loiter times, along with the AN-APS/20 radar they were a large draw from the two 66 Kva alternators, around the the mid 70s they were withdrawn from use and the black lines painted over on some aircraft. and many preserved examples have those lines painted over. I mention them as from a modelling perspective they explain why so much of the wing undersides look so smooth. They were essentially large mats (I think of some kind of resin or epoxy) that were applied over the airframe skins, and so covering panel lines etc, and partly covering the fwd portions of those wing reinforcing strips. On a vacform AEW that I built I replicated the mats using very thin plasticard, but that was probably overkill! These pics show the lines and you can see how far aft on the wing undersides they extended, the last shot gives an indication of the top lines, they are much further fwd to the leading edges. Gannet AEW.3 XL482 wing det (3) by James Thomas, on Flickr Gannet AEW.3 XL482 wing det (2) by James Thomas, on Flickr Gannet AEW.3 XL482 Aug 78 by James Thomas, on Flickr The Warpaint Gannet book has very good reference pictures of these areas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Hi James, Good point about the deicing mats, as they may have been fitted...Any idea if there was a period when they were removed? As you say , if they were fitted to operational Gannets, it may be reasonable to assume they were on in the late 70's, on board the Ark's. I checked the Alleycat decal sheet and there aren't any black lines for the wings' , while there are some for the tail and winglets... Looking at the picture on the article that inspired me, I don't see any black line on the botom of the wings, while the fins' stencils are there, thus I think I'll go for this configuration without the deicing mats on the wings. Anyway yesterday I couldn't resist all day without modellingand I did something: First I added the vertical sunken linesat the wings' exit ...then I shaped the front pates on the wings' middle section's inside.Detali will be added later. Ciao Massimo 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, massimo said: Hi James, Good point about the deicing mats, as they may have been fitted...Any idea if there was a period when they were removed? As you say , if they were fitted to operational Gannets, it may be reasonable to assume they were on in the late 70's, on board the Ark's. I checked the Alleycat decal sheet and there aren't any black lines for the wings'... Massimo ..however they are on the drawings, you can see the line on the underside plan. The mats were always fitted in service, they are a right so and so to remove, they just stopped using them. The black lines however were painted over on some aircraft - but not all, as always look for pictures of the actual aircraft that you are modelling. For example XL450, XL472 & XL482 had the lines applied right to the end of their service, and because the later two have never been repainted since, still have them visible. Conversely XL500 and XL502 lost the lines well before the end of their service. It might even be the case that the HQ aircraft had them painted over but not the carrier based B Flt aircraft, but that needs further study! They can be quite hard to see in some photos, and I wouldn't blame anyone for not applying them, they must be pencil thin in 72nd. More the point is that the mats cover any wing detail that they are applied over. Do you know which Gannet you are modelling yet? Superb work yet again. Edited January 2, 2018 by 71chally 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrywar67 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Wow....fantastic work !!!Pizza is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahahahahahahh!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thanks James, I think I may go for the 042 in the article opening picture. Welcome back Enrico!!! Now a small update. Today I went out with my family and when I got back, I found this on my post box: Everything looked great, bu then....disaster struck!!! The main reason for purchasing this set was not to have to get mad reshaping the Matchbox Buccaneer's nose, but when I got the resin one in my hands...this is what I found out... they must have squeezed the silicone rubber mould when the resin was still soft and this is the result. There's also a step at the side, probably due to a cut in the rubber mould... I think the mould back block was meant to be square , and this gives the idea of the level of distortion!!! To be honest, this was the only reason why I purchased this set, but I don't think I'll be able to use it, as it's completely distorted and itd diametre is wrong in all directions.... I'll contact Alley cat to see if they can send me a properly shaped nose, but for now...I'm a little sad.... Good night! Massimo 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJP Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Not a great quality photo & I cant remember where I got it - it is of HMS Victorious Air Group not the Ark Royal but it does show COD and AEW Gannets folded next to each other for comparison - I think mid to late 1960's era reference the Warpaint Gannet publication 23 CJP 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Splendid modelling on the wing folds! I'm totally confused about mats now... Regards, Adrian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Hi mates, small update: tonight I started adding some details to the inside of the wings' middle sections. First I drew the parts to be added and holes to be drilled... ...then I made some small plastic circles with my personal reviewed version of punch and die... Here is where I got. Now it's time to go to bed!!! Night night!!! Massimo 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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