Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 I made an enlargement of this great pic to help me representing this area with the handle: I had to decrease my cushion in width so that it could take place between the 2 reinforcement slant arms: This is just a dry fit of course. I will now paint my seat IG and another coat of XF 52 (flat earth) will be applied on the cushion, before trying to give a 3D effect (JMV technique) on it and adding more details... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 I think I have understood something, about the « cushion ». I am not at home now, I will very soon post a pic about that. What I can say is that any pic must be examined with a lot of care. If you don’t, you will maybe be wrong... Do you see what I mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Hi Olivier The cushion looks really good, but may I introduce a note of caution. One of my references states that the large cushion was a post war introduction and that during WWII the pilot's parachute pack was the back cushion. Hope the storm's not too bad where you are. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 Hi John, look at the cushion in Antonio ´s post on last friday at 22h25 on p. 5. There is a thin cushion, but it wraps the seat. You can see it going through the cut strips on top of the seat (Antonio learned me that this strip was cut during WWII). The mistake is to represent a cushion on the seat, while it is wrapping the seat! So my cushion is to throw in the trash! I didn’ t understand why the seat was not visible at all under the cushion, now it is clear. Now the question is for me to represent that. Either I do folds directly on the back seat (that will require one more time to remove the slant lateral arms, either I find a thin and soft material to wrapp the seat... Now I remember the comment going with the yellow cushion, saying that the parachute was the only « cushion » during WWII. If it was so, it would look IG and not light brown on the photo above. And on the pic b and w with John England in his cockpit, it is imho clear that what we see is a soft material and not the metal seat. I must say that this Lt Columbo investigation recalls me my previous build, Hannes will understand what I mean... The most curious will go and read the 188 pages of the "Fiat 806 research and scratchbuilds" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 I have lightened a lot the photo below showing John England in his "Missouri Armada" P 51-D. Imho, there is a wrapping, this can't be the metal seat. The comment saying there was no cushion during WWII meant imho "not a cushion on the seat". So, I will represent (unless a new info comes bringing a new conclusion) this fine tissue wrapping the seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 Enlargement showing the seat wrapping. On this pic, the cut portions of the top strip are not visible, probably wrapped too (the dent on the left of the seat and the folds on top confirm that imho). This is imho the best reference I have to represent this wrapping. It would be useful to confirm that this pic was taken during the WWII. Maybe the name of the pilot, Lt W.R Gabriel, could help. A support would be much appreciated. If so, it would confirm what I think: there was a wrapping in John England's Missouri Armada. Look at the pic just above with England (my previous post) and see how they seem to have nearly the same look, even if there seems to be a kind of sewing on England 's one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Hi Oliver, I guess the debate continues... I found a couple of wwII pics with the seatbelts strap on top of the seat, also some more cushion pics, sometimes it can be tricky and confusing as the welding seam of the metal could look like a zipper, cheers! Edited December 10, 2017 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 some more interesting documents 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 Thank you again, Antonio, for these new pics (I wonder where you find all that). Without you, I would have been wrong, with a thick yellow cushion. I will soon post a pic to show my final solution. Am I right? I hope so, but I think I am close from truth... Brit brought me that, instead of working on my side, sharing with others allowed me to improve a lot my build. That was so for my previous build too... With that and my master JMV hints, I hope I will get a convincing and nice build. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 I am waiting for the HGW/ Eduard seat belts, ordered a few days ago, to finish the seat. Meanwhile, I will work on all around... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squibby Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 @Olivier de St Raph I think it's fair to say there was a hell of a lot of variation in what the seat cushion looked like. As there is likely to have been given it's a lot down to pilot preference. I'm thoroughly confused and given the choice I think for my build I'm just going to go with the yellow life raft seat. Primarily because it adds interest to the cockpit. I feel though that the Tamiya representation even modified as I have done is a bit too blocky. I've got some milliput to scratch up a new one but I'm really apprehensive about trying to remove the moulded representation. It just seems like a really difficult task, one you've pulled off quite well I'll add. I might paint up the current one and see what it looks like before biting the bullet on that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Squibby said: I think it's fair to say there was a hell of a lot of variation in what the seat cushion looked like. As there is likely to have been given it's a lot down to pilot preference. Yes, Squibby, I agree with you, but I am representing the England's aircraft and on the pic where we see him, I am sure there was not the yellow thick cushion, but very probably a thin wrapping cushion. That said, looking again at my last pic, I am not satisfied of this cushion. Maybe I gave too much folds and relief. I tried to take inspiration on the Lt Gabriel seat cushion, but the result is not acceptable for me. It is frustrating because, as you mentioned, I spent a lot of time on this matter and because except that element, I am glad with the rest of the seat. It is true that removing completely the cushion is possible but delicate. To you to decide what you will do for your build. JMV represented (very nicely, as always) the seat with the yellow cushion... If I don't succeed to get something better, i could decide to represent the seat naked, that would still require quite a lot of work... Maybe it would look a little better with the seat belts, I could try (dry fit assembly with the Eduard PE that I should not use). Any suggestion to improve my wrapping cushion will be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Hi Olivier, these were my cushion attempts in 1/32 and 1/48 , which clay are you using? dont go too hard on the folds, I use a rubber brush to soften the surface. Edited December 10, 2017 by antonio argudo 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squibby Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 That's some nice moulding work there on the cushions! Great stuff, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share Posted December 11, 2017 Thanks a lot for your help, Antonio, I agree with Squibby to say the moulding work is very nice. I wonder if I choose the buttons version or the one without, that I like very much (the first one, 1/32). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 10/12/2017 at 15:53, antonio argudo said: sometimes it can be tricky and confusing as the welding seam of the metal could look like a zipper, cheers! Yes, Antonio, it is true, but look at the England's pic: the sides of the seat would be more round imho. And this pic shows a WWII pilot (svastikas trophies) who's got a fine cushion wrapping the seat. I go on thinking England had the same kind of cushion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Hi Olivier, well I had to dismiss the buttone cushion since it was used in early Mustangs like B/C so a plain brown cushion I think is moreindicated for you model, cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share Posted December 11, 2017 Dear chaps, You probably felt that yesterday, I was a bit discouraged looking at my wrapping cushion. But today, some good news arrived: 1) Antonio posted his nice seat, the first one should inspire me. Thanks again Antonio! 2) I got the template Hannes had recommended to me (with rivets and a 0,5 mm drill). Here it is: Hannes gave me a very good hint. This template allows to create regular holes, there are 4 different spaces (A, B, C and D). the holes are about 0,65 mm. The C spaces are well fitted to represent the 8 holes on the beam on which is fixed the seat support. Thank you Hannes! 3) I got a reply from JMV to several questions I had, about photography, and about the HGW seat belts I ordered on his recommendation (see above). About photo, I will just talk here about the last one I did yesterday of my seat with this cushion I didn't like (he also gave me very good ones about depth of field to still improve my Fiat photos...), Juan explained me that: - my seat was good (he kindly said "great") but my photo was too large, with details looking too big. Considering the scale (1/48), the photo should be 15-20 cm wide at 72 dpi. The rule is so: the aspect of the object will not be larger than the 300% of the real size when zoom the image at 100%. He resized my photo to 15 cm wide, and it is true that it looks better, even if I remain not very glad with this cushion. I will edit my photo with these parameters. - Juan learned me that the HGW set includes a fine cushion, what could be, if confirmed, a very good new. So, I will wait to get this set and take a decision about redoing, modifying, or use the HGW cushion. Many thanks to you too, Juan, if you read this, for all I learnt from you! I am so glad to have good friends, excellent modelers, to give me good hints and improve my skills. Thanks to all, it is great to share with all of you! Olivier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Great discussion on the cushions and I've made a mental file. You're doing a great job Olivier. About the tires, have a close look at this pic: Hard to see but it looks to me like it's something other than the diamond tread. Lots of styles seen here: http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/reviews/accessories/hussarmustangwheelpreview_1.htm Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 Thanks so much Andy, glad to see this investigation interested you (I sometimes wonder if I don’t go too far..). About tyres, like you, I tried to see which ones were mounted on the Missouri. I will try to zoom and work on the contrast with this photo, in order to decide... In case on nagging doubt, I will choose the diamond tread, that I prefer esthetically. In my philosophy of modeling, I try to be as close as possible from truth, and it is only when it is impossible to be sure that esthetic considerations make me choose. All the best Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 On 30/11/2017 at 18:03, antonio argudo said: from the North Aviation Factory 1944 Up to now, I intended to paint black the beam and IG the rest of the frame around radio and battery, but this pic shows that all the frame was black. Of course, lights will be brought to enhance details and give a 3D effect on these black elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 Hello dear followers, My radio compartment is nearly over. I tried to enhance details, that was necessary with the nearly "all black" elements... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Still a low progress: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 yes Olivier, that's looking realy nice and accurate, your effort is paying off my friend, keep the good! cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Thank you Antonio, for your encouragements and especially for the great pics you brought us, that were essential to get this accuracy. Some precisions about the last steps : - the beam with holes: I finally used the Hannes metal template itself, cutting a small part of it and enlarging the holes up to getting the good size (0,9mm) - I tried to represent the balsa wood used (and slightly visible on our pics) around the black box behind the seat. Maybe I will replace my painted version by Uschi wooden decals when I get them (very soon, I hope) - the radio wire was made from tiny 0,07 mm copper that I braided and then glued and painted white (Vallejo) - the box behind the seat has been improved, my first version was too thin. I have to add some more details, in particular the big fuel hose backwards, for which I will use 1,6 mm Evergreen rod, that I now have got (from yesterday) but was hard to find. Cheers to all and thanks for following despite the low progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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