Missouri Armada P-51D Mustang: documents and partial scratch from the Tamiya 1/48 kit

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

On 30/03/2018 at 10:14, T-21 said:

The Yoxford Boys was bestowed on the 357 Group by William Joyce "Lord Haw Haw"  over the Bremen-Hamburg-Cologne radio. The village of Yoxford is close to the Leiston airfield. I too have the book excellent read picked up at a model show for £25.

 

I have checked where was situated Yoxford on the map, and indeed, it is near Leiston. But why not "the Leiston Boys"? Even if Yoxford is close, the airfield was at Leiston, after all?

About the book, yes, I got it for 23,57€ on ebay from USA (the shipping was 24,36€!!). Even if for me, it is a big effort to read it as it is in english, it is worth and hardly recommended for all the ones interested in the 357th FG...

 

Oh! I see John has replied, sorry I leave you 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thanks John, exactly the reply I was expecting! you still learnt me something I ignored (and I suppose I was not alone).

I will try to represent not only the cylindrical throttle (as I indeed intend to set the K14 gunsight) but also the cable you mention. We can see very well this cable (green) on the doc 60 above (post#820)...

 

[John Terrell]

On the real thing/original, the throttle/gun sight cable was wrapped in black rubber (not green). The shape/style of the throttle grip is like that of a bicycle handle, and the cable that runs from the throttle to the gun sight is like a bicycle brake handle cable.

Note in this illustration, which shows the entire K-14A kit/package installation, the "voltage regulator assembly" and "core adjustable screw" unit was located behind the instrument panel, and thus cannot be seen from within the cockpit.

Note also the "selector dimmer" control box was installed on the right side (on these early installations), attached to the inside of the instrument panel cover/shroud (as can be seen in the following photographs):

 

Here are a few images displaying the K-14 throttle and the cable. As with everything else, there were different versions of this throttle lever as well (I know of three or four different types, depending on era).

 

 

 

 

Although these are later variants pictured here (an early P-51D-20-NA and I believe a P-51D-25-NA), they illustrate the early K-14A control box installation, which *I believe* was the same as on the field modified versions.

 

 

 

Another late P-51D-20-NA, but with the earlier K-14A installation and location of control box.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by John Terrell

[Totally Mad Olivier]

When I say we have an outstanding team on this thread... Thanks a lot again for these great docs, John! (especially the K14 gun sight installation)

If I understand well, since I choose the hole/ button option outside, I must represent the later crank (with the smallest handle, right side), OK?

 

[John Terrell]

The one on the left is the late crank (with button) and the one on the right is the early (consistent with no exterior button). Both versions came in either black paint or interior green paint (on originals, I've seen both finishes for both types).

Edited March 31, 2018 by John Terrell

[Totally Mad Olivier]

6 hours ago, John Terrell said:

The one on the left is the late crank (with button)

Ok, I was right asking you, as I had misunderstood, now I think all is clear about the right panel for me. The hardest is to come, represent all these details at 1/48 as well as possible. Feeling a little better today, I am gonna be able to go back to my workbench first for little sessions...

 

Thanks again for your great help

 

Olivier 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hi John,

your doc "K14A gun sight installation" and the pics of your post#828 above showed the control box on the right side. The Aires kit places it left side, what corresponds I suppose to later versions. Do you have a pic with a front view of the instrument panel on an early version like the Missouri, with a K14 added in the field? This would be very useful for me. I wonder for example if the part above the light is present left side or not on such versions. 

 

For modelers who represent a later version, it would be interesting to know from which one the control box has been moved left side:

 

Thanks in advance for your help

 

Olivier

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Sorry, I have 2 other questions:

1) on the pic below that you brought above, we can't see the cockpit light right side. Were there versions without this light, to leave the room for the K14 control box?

2) on this same pic, the control box seems to be fixed inside the shroud. I found another version (see the pic below) in which the control box is not fixed and the light is present. So?

 

 

I found this front view with a control box right situated but not fixed inside the shroud, maybe to leave room for the light... I am not an expert, and the expert's lighting will be very interesting:

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Waiting for precisions to go on with the inside shroud, right panel and K14, here is where I am now, after having reworked and completed my left panel:

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

My decision is taken: I could not use the Aires part as it was, knowing I had tried up to now to be as close as possible from truth, asking and getting help from P-51 experts such Antonio or John Terrell. I will try to keep the best of this Aires part, and I will do surgeries and scratch to improve it and get a close from truth right panel. I began this work this evening (I had not the necessary energy up to now):

 

 

After the first changes:

 

I recall my main reference docs are:

1) this one, our 51bis, confirmed by John T. (except the beacon receiver box):

 

2) the great Antonio right panel, very accurate, for his 1/32 Tamiya build:

 

3) this very nice and accurate doc:

 

4) and this one, not bad too:

 

Of course, there is still a lot to do to get a convincing right panel... The next step will be to thin a lot, with care, the Aires part, much too thick. More soon...

Edited April 4, 2018 by Olivier de St Raph

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

...inside the RIGHT half fuselage, sorry... 

[silberpferd]

Hi Olivier,

 

a field installation picture of a K-14 gunsight on a P-51D-15-NA from the 364th Fighter Group

 

 

Cheers

 

Laurent

[silberpferd]

Another one, same fighter group but a P-51D-10-NA this time

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thanks a lot Laurent for these pics. Though, I must admit things remain unclear for me, because of all these variations from an aircraft to the another. On your pics, we can see, fixed on the right inside of the shroud, a round box, that looks a bit different from the control box John T. showed above:

 

Is this the control box? I would say no, because they don't have the same shape (see John's post#828). But where would the latter be, then?? And what would be this element, that I don't see on other pics??

[silberpferd]

This box looked like this

 

https://aeroantique.com/products/gunsight-dimmer-switch?variant=40642443786

 

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thank you very much Laurent for this new pic and the very interesting link. If I understand well, this box would be another K14 control box model (probably on earlier versions) than the one John showed above. That’s right?

If yes, could we have this model set in the Missouri Armada more probably than the one John showed?

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

I have realized I made a mistake glueing the Aires part. 

Look at this doc, ever posted on the thread long ago:

 

On the Aires panel, the hollowed chambers are missing, they represented wrongly a flat panel (see my photo 151 above). I am gonna try to do the correction a posteriori, but it would have been much more easy before cementing the Aires part...

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

I am not very happy with the result I got using this method...

[Totally Mad Olivier]

As I was reworking on this area, I found back this other pic, completing usefully the one of the post#843:

 

This new doc shows that:

- the hollow chambers are quite deep, this observation will lead me to reconsider completely the way I will try to represent this area (the one on my last photo 152 was not deep enough)

- the Aires part included rivets all along the beam, while they are missing from the first hollowed chamber and going backward. This other error will too influence my technique. More soon...

[antonio argudo]

5 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

I am not very happy with the result I got using this method...

nice work Olivier, dont worry too much because that area wont be visible once you close the fuselage, keep the good!!

cheers

[Totally Mad Olivier]

On 30/03/2018 at 17:53, Fencer-1 said:

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/459

And one more interesting detail - the front retractable part of the flap is also painted over by green.

On 31/03/2018 at 10:39, antonio argudo said:

it looks like this was usual on the camuflaged 357th, there are more pics that confirm this, good point Alexey!

 

On the other hand, on the Butch Baby, it hardly seems that the retractable part of the flap was remained unpainted:

 

Maybe some P-51D of the 357th had these parts painted, while other ones were kept unpainted...

 

Cheers

[antonio argudo]

1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

On the other hand, on the Butch Baby, it hardly seems that the retractable part of the flap was remained unpainted:

Hi Olivier,

I really can't make a  statemt from a poor quality picture,  as the light reflects on the curve surface it can really trick the eyes, 

this are other posible examples

cheers

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by antonio argudo

[antonio argudo]

I found also another  Mustang with snow wing covers

cheers

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by antonio argudo

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hi Antonio,

even if it is difficult for me to imagine that the retractable part of the flap was RAF Dark Green on that pic of the Butch Baby, I admit there is a higher probability that, like on several examples of 357th aicrafts, this area was painted on the Missouri Armada (more than 50% anyway). Pity, I liked the contrast of the alu there, like we could see on the Getty pic above (doc 155 post#813)...

Furthermore, I would like to have John’s (and yours too) opinion about the K14 control box Laurent showed above, different from the one he himself posted.