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Olivier de St Raph

Missouri Armada P-51D Mustang: documents and partial scratch from the Tamiya 1/48 kit

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8 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

Thanks John for your contribution.

About the "big spring" or "hose" question, we would need another pic showing it better, but I see coils, that's why for now, I go on thinking it is a kind of spring, much much thicker than the tiny ones on the seat sides.

 

P.S: I have sent an email to the Le Bourget musée de l'Air et de l'Espace (they have a P 51D) if they can help me for this area...

 

That item in the picture that you have identified as "big spring?" is the a cold air hose which is part of the cockpit ventilation system. You can see the outlet at the top just under your text box. There's a similar hose on the right side as well and its hidden in your picture but you can see the outlet there as well.

 

Andy

Edited by Crimea River

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Thanks Andy for this interesting info. But I really don't see the outlet on the right side on the enlargement above... There seems to have a cable wiring, running in holes, no??

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4 hours ago, ronnierex said:

I love 357th builds! Yours is looking amazing! :wow:

Thank you so much ronnierex! Very kind while I have just begun the build, but very encouraging. I will try to do honor to the 357th F.G builds! ;)

 

P.S: did you get the amazing DVD of Juan Manuel Villalba? If not, you should, you won't regret... His Missouri Armada build (a master work, definitely) is detailed. It is fascinating to see him working, he has golden hands! 

As I said above, my build will be very influenced by his one, even if some differences will necessary exist, especially because I don't have his unique talent. But I'll do my best!

 

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Great work so far. I've just started on the rear cockpit area after a little mishap on my build. I'll certainly be taking a lot of inspiration from your efforts, it certainly highlighted the need to thin the seat back a bit, it makes it look much more realistic.

 

@Crimea River Thanks so much for that little tidbit of info re: the springy thingies down the sides of the seat, I thought they were some funky shock absorption system for the seat. For my build I was going to use thicker (24 or 26 gauge) wire wrapped with thinner lead / soft wire and slathered with some mr surfacer to soften up the profile.

 

Look forward to see how you tackle the cockpit areas and wheel wells.

 

 

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My radio compartment nearly over, I have applied a base coat of XF1 Tamiya thinned with X 20 A (no primer). The hose looking like a big spring, I did as if it was one, wrapping a 0,4 mm copper wire around a 6 mm brass tube (Albion Alloys). On the right side, I did not see the hose, I made openings for cables, because it is what I see.

 

ajn8a1.jpg

 

Notice that we have 2 versions of the frame behind the seat in the pics. Which one is the most probable in your opinion? 

 

G5xSqd.png

 

Jc6Anm.png

 

 

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On 28/11/2017 at 21:14, Squibby said:

Great work so far. I've just started on the rear cockpit area after a little mishap on my build. I'll certainly be taking a lot of inspiration from your efforts, it certainly highlighted the need to thin the seat back a bit, it makes it look much more realistic.

 

Thanks Squibby! and me, I will take inspiration in your amazing wells... That's what I love in Brit, sharing and helping each others! ;)

Yes, the seat back really needs to be thinned a lot, as this great pic sent kindly to me by JMV 2 days ago shows:

 

ub27Nu.jpg

 

The photo shows the very thin springs on the sides and many other very useful infos. Thanks Juan!

The Tamiya kit is a good base, but of course, there is a lot of scratchbuild to do (you showed that with the wells...) to get a convincing build. 

All the best

Olivier

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In the same time I go on with this new build, I try to get the best photos with a better post prod for my last one, the Fiat 806 "Grand Prix". I made several trials on Photoshop Lightroom  for the below 3/4 rear view and the rear view. Here is my result (sorry for this digression in my thread...).

Juan Manuel, who is also a pro photographer, should soon kindly do that job too for me, with probably a better result. I look forward to see that...

3kmGdH.jpg

 

I7UDCg.jpg

 

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Hi Olivier. Sorry for the delayed response to your question. I'm new to the forum and unfortunately I don't have a third party picture hosting set up yet so I can't post up a picture of the outlet for the hose. I will describe it though as it is clearly seen in the pic that you posted containing the text "green frame". Look at the hose in that picture and move your eye upward. The next thing you see is your green frame and a lightening hole directly above the hose. Immediately above that frame and hole you can see something that looks like a small water spout. That's the cold air outlet and it is attached to a black box which you can also see and that box is attached to the end of your hose behind the frame. Make sense?

 

I would reiterate that there are TWO such hoses and outlets. The detail is repeated on the other side of the pilot seat. You can see the top of the outlet box in your picture and the outlet itself is just outside of your picture boundary.

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy for these precisions. I didn't understand very well, do you have another pic and just can't post it because you don't have an host? I recommend to you ImageSchack or Flickr. Waiting for that, tell me if you have a pic showing better this area, I will send you by PM my mail adress.

I suppose you were talking about these parts: I clearly see the "water spout", and indeed on both sides. But I still don't see the hose, that should be at least partially visible imho on the other side, even if a bit hidden by the oblique strut...

Your explanation makes sense, definitely, but maybe a little drawing would help. If I understand well, the "black box" supporting the "spout" is connected to the hose.

Ahh! What a pity we don't have more views of that area. While I am sure they exist, necessary, with all the Mustang still visible in aircraft museums!! I spent a lot of time on research. That is why I go on so slowly my build, I would like first to be sure, I had to do and redo so many times in the lack of docs on my previous build (ask Hannes...). But it was different, the Fiat 806 no more exists (from 1928), and few docs available (see the thread 806 research and scratchbuilds if interested).

If I could, I would go seeing and doing photos myself on an existing P 51D, but this is not possible for now...

tHihur.png

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The supply hose to the outlets is indeed the grey part that looks like a spring. The other one is hidden behind the sloped seat frame. If you PM me your e-mail address I can send you a couple of diagrams of this area from the illustrated parts manual.

 

Andy

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OK, never mind. I used Drop box for my picture links and can now show you what I mean. This is a screen grab from the illustrated parts manual showing the cold air supply lines. Note the supply hoses on both sides of the seat and the small outlets we talked about. The hidden one in your pic is #38 in the diagram and is behind the seat frame as I said. The outlet boxes are 40 and 41 and both are in your pic. Hope this helps.

 

lZi98cXSDihwSbJIm48m_4EZiP-Wl5hXj2Zh8M0X

 

By the way, I did look through the manual for more clarity in the area you are modeling but the above seems to be the best example.

 

Andy

Edited by Crimea River

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16 minutes ago, Biggles87 said:

I can't see it either.

 

John

Thanks for the confirmation John. I guess posting and linking in Drop Box doesn't work. Will investigate separately and not clutter Olivier's thread with my difficulties.

 

Great pics above BTW. What I tried to post is confirmed in the pic showing the cooling air hoses on both sides above.

 

Andy 

Edited by Crimea River

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On 30/11/2017 at 17:32, Crimea River said:

Got your message Olivier. So you can't see the diagram I posted above? I can see it here.

 

cn5tFM.jpg

 

 

Here is Andy's picture, sent to me by email. Thanks Andy, it is very interesting and useful!

 

g3YQlQ.jpg

 

ebvZjp.png

 

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Waooh Antonio!! :worthy:

What great pics, exactly what I was looking for! Thanks so much! Could you send me by We transfer the movie from North Aviation factory, please?

The pic without the seat is really great and confirms what Andy said, 2 hoses, the right one is now clearly visible. 

These new docs will require corrections on my build, I begin all now!

 

All the best and thanks for your kind PM

 

Olivier

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 I'm glad to help Oliver,  i can send you  more reference  pictures by Google Drive, just need your email to send it to you!

 

the video can be seen here:

 http://www.boeingimages.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2JRSN2PMESMZG3&SMLS=1&RW=1920&RH=987

Edited by antonio argudo

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Wow nice reference pics being posted up here, I'll keep an eye on this since I'm replicating the same detail myself currently. I can see now I was not entirely correct in getting their shape down.

 

Not sure how I'll replicate them with open ends but I'll see what you come up with :D

 

 

 

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Some very good references indeed, I'll bookmark them if I may. I am planning te resurrect a stalled Dragon P-51 soon, and I'm also going to add one of the new Revell 1/32 versions to my Mustang collection..

 

Keep up the good work.

 

John

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I don't know why Antonio's pic in his post above has vanished (showing the seat support and the 2 ventilation hoses). A bug, I suppose.

I reproduce it here. Even if we have clearly here a restored P 51D (the battery is different, and the photo is recent), it is an exceptional doc on the area behind the seat, as Andy's diagram. With both docs, you can try to represent these hoses and the spouts, through others. All these details are of course missing in the Tamiya kit, and are usually not represented in 1/48 builds. I will try to do that as well as possible, with compromises of course considering the scale. More soon...

Antonio sent me by email many photos (found on Google Drive, much better than Google Images imho), I will post some of them, the most important for the build. Many thanks again to Antonio!  

 

 

B5q8Zw.jpg

 

 

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In the light of the recent docs (photo and diagram), it has become necessary to modify deeply the Tamiya A17 part (cockpit, fuel tank and radio compartment). I did not expect so important modif, this recalls me the many "surgeries" I had to do on my previous build... As for the Fiat, I have to take risks to get something quite close from truth. I hope I will get back on my feet...

On the photo below, after having reduced the fuel tank that was going too forward, a 0,36 mm plastic card was cut and placed to close its frontal portion.

More soon...

 

e6pFMp.jpg

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