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Olivier de St Raph

Missouri Armada P-51D Mustang: documents and partial scratch from the Tamiya 1/48 kit

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Posted (edited)

Hi Olivier,

just found this online manuals, planty of precise info for you, now you have some good lecture for the cold winter! ;)

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/P-51D-manual-5april44.pdf

 

 

http://server.3rd-wing.net/public/Manuels DCS/DCS P-51D Flight Manual EN.pdf

 

http://wiki.hoggit.us/images/8/83/North-American-P-51-Mustang-Pilot-Training-Manual.pdf

 

 

Edited by antonio argudo

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Dear Antonio,

I began to put an eye (and even 2! ;)) to the incredible documents you kindly put in the thread above. All what you wanted to know about the... P-51D is there, and some of the best docs you brought are in one of these 3 docs.

I made a lot of screen captures (especially of the 2nd one) and this will be of course very useful for my build.

I am sure many modelers will appreciate...

The first one is the P-51-D-5 British model pilot's flight operating instructions (51 pages).

The second one is a modern flight manual (simulator?) in color with beautiful pics , rivets lines, full of interesting infos (176 pages + supplements).

The third one is the original pilot training manual for the P-51, with an introduction and a portrait of Dwight Eisenhower! (about 186 pages)

 

1000 thanks again!

 

All the best

 

Olivier

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Slow progress because of few time. On the first photo,

1: a necessary thin (0,13 mm Evergreen) sheet has been added, that we can see on the docs above (62a, 69, 70...)

2: the color here is rather yellow, kind of Zinc Chromate, than IG (docs 62a, 69)

3: the lug (see above) has been added (a 0,3 mm hole drilled with Tamiya drill in 0,2 mm thickness acetate sheet)

 

ktkhmD.jpg

 

On this 2nd one, 

1: I had to remove the bracket under A11 in order to move a bit backward the dashboard. A 0,25 mm thin sheet has been added to increase a bit the height. So, I could add...

... 2: the bell seen above (Rivet Tool, 0,3 mm thickness tin sheet)

B2Z39n.jpg

 

Some other improvements will be necessary on this dashboard, more soon...

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Hi Olivier,

I'm glad you enjoy those manuals, great info indeed!

nice to see your progres inn the build, good job on the lock system but the control stick looks to me short and fat, maybe a profile picture could help to visualize the shape, in this diagram you can see what is the hight of the stick(quite high indeed) and thinner on the topan chubbier on the lower  part, also dont forget the fabric protector that is attached to the floor with rivets (look document n49) 

cheers

 

P_51_DFloor_Profile.png

control_stick_assembly.jpg

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Thank you Antonio, you are absolutely right, I had not noticed that. I will replace the Tamiya stick, too short and too thick, indeed... This shows one more time the advantage of sharing in a thread like this one...

These 2 pics will be very helpful, definitely!

Cheers

 

 

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The last comment from Antonio pushed me to do a profile view comparison between my build and the first doc just above.

This comparison shows mainly that:

- the angle that the seat support (and so the seat) does with a vertical line should me more important, about 18°, while it is only 10° on my build 

- the stick should be a bit longer and thinner, the handle a bit shorter and doing a more important angle with the stick.

 

I am not sure I will do the correction for the seat angle, very delicate now, but I will try to improve at least the joystick...

 

 

mLj8ae.png

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I have begun redoing my joystick, using a portion of stretched plastic to replace the Tamiya stick and improving the angle between stick and handle:

9JGBqD.jpg

 

I am gonna take advantage of these modifs to improve the gusset, inspired by this one, very nice and natural, on a 1/32 or 1/24 build. If we consider the control stick assembly Antonio showed above, I think the Tamiya one is not thick enough in the rear portion of the gusset. I think I will use the Green Stuff (ordered and received recentely from Green Stuff World) to create gusset folds...

 

vyZpvp.jpg

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Looking good, :thumbsup:

 

you're certainly putting a lot more thought into this than I was, I'd like to go back and retroactively make some of these mods but most of my cockpit parts are now finished and fitted in place.

 

I think with the green stuff I'd roll it out into a thin sheet and drape it over the stick then form it and square it off at the bottom. Given how tiny it is it'll be a tough operation, just make sure you keep all your tools wet :D

 

I'll be watching to see how you tackle the sidewalls.

 

 

Edited by Squibby

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Thanks Squibby, but first of all your cockpit is however excellent ;). And I could "put more thought" just because Antonio brought me the necessary (and amazing) docs. And like you, I would have some mods to do and it is now very delicate and probably too late (the wrong angle seen above). We have to deal with compromises, considering the scale (1/48) and the fact that all these details will be just slightly visible at the end.

You are right, representing the gusset will be very delicate (thanks about the tip, indeed it is necessary to keep fingers and tools wet with the Green Stuff). I made trials on my second stick that up to now were not very convincing (I am not yet very familiar with this material).

More, I would need to have more photos of the gusset (many pics represent the control stick without the gusset, of course very interesting too). I have mainly this one (rear view):

 

DiAchu.png

 

... and the ones of very good big scale builds (doc 70 and 71). 

 

Another consideration: I think it would be necessary, in order to represent correctly the gusset, to first remove completely the Tamiya one and scratchbuild the control stick assembly (very simply of course), using the great doc Antonio brought us and whose I made the below enlargement:

 

gbJPdH.jpg

 

Fe, the first version of the lug I made was wrong, because I glued the lug on the Tamiya gusset. But the gusset will be very short and vertical on the front part of the stick, to allow the lug to pass through (hope it sounds clear...), as the lug is just a short extension on front of the stick (red arrow 2).

As a scratchbuilder of figures will usefully sculpt the body with muscles before adding the clothes, I think we should first represent the structure before representing the gusset. 

Antonio, if you could bring us more pics of the gusset (profile and views with the lug going through), it would be fantastic (I know you are a magician).

And I don't forget this good hint:

On 10/01/2018 at 18:15, antonio argudo said:

dont forget the fabric protector that is attached to the floor with rivets (look document n49) 

 

Cheers

 

P.S: thank you to confirm me that the word "gusset" is correct to mention what we call in french "le soufflet"...

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8 hours ago, Squibby said:

I'll be watching to see how you tackle the sidewalls.

About the sidewalls, here is an interesting doc, regarding the left panel:

 

RA0anP.png

 

I used to wonder what what the function of the part we usually see on docs and builds. Now it's clear. And if we consider that we represent an aircraft in service (like the Missouri or the Daddy's Girl), it would be great to represent the gun too, imho.

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I believe that the flare gun was normally stowed (canvas pocket?), only fitted to the port when necessary.

 

I've only just found this thread, and feel a bit overwhelmed at the attention to detail, even just skipping over numerous pages!

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Hi Olivier,

well, kinda hard to find pictures of that hidden area but here is what I got, I guess document 49 is your best allied in this task!

if you are going to replicate the control column take a look at this: http://www.spitfireinmyworkshop.net/story.php?id=20&title=control-column-assembly-a-pause-to-look-back

about the flare pistol, as Bob says it is not situable to represent it , just keep it in the case  ;)

also check this cool video:

cheers

 

oliko4.jpg

Picture1_6.png

oliko2.jpg

 

Edited by antonio argudo

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Thanks so much one more time, Antonio, great docs and very useful, as always...

You are right, the doc 49 is probably the best reference but your 2nd pic above (after the nice video) will be very good too... I did an enlargement and numbered it 75:

 

WWHjPG.jpg

 

Notice the 2 different colors, like on the doc 72 above... The lug is to paint IG and not metal... 

RpJCVG.png

 

Notice that the locking system is full red on several docs, including the 75 just above and the 76 just below, while it is partially IG on other ones. I think I will choose the full red option, more probable imho.

n6gzvF.jpg

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On my second seat, I made what I said above, removing completely the Tamiya gusset and building very simply the control stick assembly. The comparison with the doc 73 above will push me to improve some details (especially the lug, much oversized), and then, I will dress this set with a homemade gusset. After reflection, I will use the nitrile of my single use gloves as gusset, with small drops of cyano to fix it around the stick. I precise that I won't use the stick and handle of this 2 nd seat, but just the low portion, that will be glued on my stretched stick (see above build pic 59).

More soon...

 

4IYEsH.jpg

 

 

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Hi Olivier, you are doing a great job detailing the control stick, I see  the grip or top part too long in proportion in your build,  if you cut some plastic off and sand it will improve (easy task) , the grip lenght is around x3 the lenght of the stick itself,  you can check it with the  profile n58, sorry my friend if I sound too picky ;)lol , I know you will nail it!

cheers

Edited by antonio argudo

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I have edited my post 239 above to add the pic 76, because it is the best to represent the locking system. The "?" arrows show 2 details that I did not see on other docs. I wonder if I should add them? 

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Hi Olivier, forgot to coment on that picture, it belongs to a modifided Mustang, a modern racer one so that it is a non standart, I posted because it shows the lock quite good, :)

cheers

Edited by antonio argudo

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My new joystick is in place, as the modified locking system. Because I made a real wrapping around the control stick, I did not consider necessary to create a 3D effect with lights and shadows on the gusset. I applied 2 different colors (good idea?) as we can see on some of our docs (not all...)

It is certainly not perfect, but it is imho quite better than my previous stick version (pics 54, 55, 57) and I accept this as a good compromise. 

 

sMgYHJ.jpg

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Dear Olivier , I don´t know if History Channel has the same program in France as in Germany  , but Monday  , at 21.05 pm there´s a movie about the restauration of a Mustang . I hope this information could be helpful for your construction . It´s the first movie of a series regarding  different WW 2 aeroplanes  and I guess it´s worth to record them all .

Many greetings !  Hannes

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The radiator A7 was painted black (XF1) and then a dry brush technique with enamel XF16 has been applied with a flat brush. I am wondering what color should be applied on the underbody (red arrow). We know that the A6 part (step 6) will get the black and white identification strips, but this underbody? Medium Sea Grey, like the rest of the underbody?

 

FYuLUI.jpg

 

The best references I have for now of this area are these ones (77 and 78) , on a restored aircraft. I am not sure I can refer to that... On the other hand, the red arrows on this doc show details that should probably be represented. 

97SPOI.png

 

IWS9Kp.jpg

 

I would need your opinion and if possible, more docs about this area...

 

Cheers

 

 

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I begin to work on the pedals. I will probably use the 59 Eduard PE part from the set 49216 (forTamiya), better than the A5 Tamiya part. Pedals pics:

 

ybpcLL.jpg

 

This 2nd doc shows important details to add, especially this spring and these cables (to represent both sides at the limit floor/ side panels)

wHxzIa.png

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The set dashboard/ pedals has been glued in place. I will add details seen above and then I will begin to work on the side panels. Still a lot of work to do...

I have checked the good fitting of my cockpit in the half fuselage, it is O.K.

 

6RO23E.jpg

 

QZNckk.jpg

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