silberpferd Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Olivier, the canvas cover is often discarted on restored planes, but was present in WWII, just like on Gentile's Shangri La, for instance Missouri Armada went MIA on 18 April 1945 http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/14442 I will check in my files if I can give you an answer regarding those drop tanks. Regards and congratulation for the job done. Laurent 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Again many thanks Laurent for your great contribution ! You confirm that the wrapping canvas was present on WWII P-51, I will represent this canvas. Sorry, but what do you mean by « went MIA on april 1945 »? I hope you will find something about the 108 gallon tanks... Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Hi Olivier, MIA means missing in action, I found some good info and a new photo of MIsouri Armada (at least for me), look under the wings!!! However, John England’s un-named 44-13735 was damaged in a landing accident on 1 October, with pilot Lt. Sam Fuller. It was due to landing gear malfunction, with damage limited to right gear, prop and wing tip. At this time it had 12 victory symbols arranged in two lines. The list of aircraft accidents at Leiston airfield do not show any involving John England., Possibly the list is not complete. On 2 November, his un-named (as far as we know) 44-13735 was lost with Major Lawrence Giarrisso, when a wing separated during combat. At this time, however, it was G4-N, which it probably became after repairs from the 1 October accident. In mid September, 1944, 4414789 was ferried to Leiston and was assigned to John England. Unlike his other P-51s, which had been coded G4H, this one was G4-E. He flew it for the remainder of his long extended combat tour, which ended in January, 1945. It now had 18 of the distinctive 362nd Squadron victory symbols, for his total of 17.5 victories, only one off that of top group scorer, Kit Carson. John England survived his long combat tour, but was killed in an F-86 accident in 1954, in France. After Major John England completed his extended combat tour in January of 1945, 44-14789 was assigned to pilot Lt. Tom Ridley, who re-named it Sad Sack, a poplar military cartoon character of the time. He flew it until 18 April, when he was shot down, the last 357th combat loss of the war. Ridley bailed out successful, and with the war over, soon re-joined the squadron. This brings us to our mysterious fourth P-51, about which nothing is known, but I have developed a theory, which might identify it. from: http://www.cebudanderson.com/johnengladsmustangs.htm so this was Missouri armada new name and look after John England's service: take a look at this website, there are some remains from the crash: http://www.leteckabadatelna.cz/havarie-a-sestrely/detail/26/ cheers! Edited February 9, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 First of all, I add these pics (thanks again Laurent) to our collection, because of their importance: And now a big thank again too Antonio for these fascinating discovery you just made. Ok now we know... About the pic you show (I had seen it in my searchs on the net but it did not appear good enough to me - I was wrong! -), I suppose you talk about this: We had the same arm on the You Tube video and on the Happy Jack's, without the vertical lines (and so without the connector PE7?), that would confirm my feelings. I admit however things are not yet very clear in my mind about these fuel and pressure lines... A drawing that would represent them with the drop tank support and the wing would be welcome, as I will have to represent them by scratch soon... Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlow Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Glad to be catching up with this build after an extended bout of flu. The research on the tail wheel leg canvas 'boot' is very timely as I am working on that area on my Revell kit... getting back to it after illness. Interesting to see the 'pinked' material doped over the access/lightening holes in the tailwheel well... something else to replicate as Revell has these moulded open... Matt PS - I don't suppose there are any similar images with a view of the rear of the canvas boot? Edited February 9, 2018 by Mattlow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Glad to see you back here and that you recovered well after that flu (here too, the epidemic hit hard). I didn’t find rear views of the wrapping canvas up to now, but we have specialists in search here... All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silberpferd Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 6 hours ago, Mattlow said: PS - I don't suppose there are any similar images with a view of the rear of the canvas boot? I hope those will help. I was lucky enough to get close to the P-51d displayed at Dübendorf in Switzerland, which is probably the most original Mustang survivor. Laurent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silberpferd Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Do you think I am right thinking the Missouri had the earlier version tanks on the pics 20, 23 and 106? I believe that Missouri Armada was fitted with the early 110 Gallons tanks on this picture, as the pipes for the lines are coming from the rear end, while you find them on the front end on later tanks. Laurent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Waooh! thanks a lot, Laurent, these pics are great and very useful, for sure! Though, your diagram of the fuel system, very interesting, shows the 75 gallon tank, and I am not sure we had the same construction with the 108 one... On my side, I began the paintjob on the wheels: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Added to the collection, and so in the glossary on my post#1, p. 1: If we compare the doc 131 with the doc 111, we can see the nearly same construction, with maybe a small difference: on the restored aircraft, 2 holes in front of the support for the fuel and pressure lines. On the doc 131, it seems to be only the fuel line, what would confirm the Laurent doc 128 above. I would like to see an enlargement of this alternate version of the pressure line on a period P-51D. N.B: I had ever drilled the 2 holes on my model in front (see my building doc 96 above), I will wait to be 100% sure before filling the smallest one (pressure line). Because I am not sure all that sounds clear for everyone, I made this comparison 111/ 131: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silberpferd Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) On pic #131, you cannot see the pressure line, because it is coming out of the wing on the inboard side of the rack, like on pic #128, and goes to the rear of the 110 gal. tank, nearby the fuel line pipe. It is on the right side of the bomb rack, that is why you cannot see it here. Laurent Edited February 10, 2018 by silberpferd additional image 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Ok Laurent, I understand that I can't see it, and I imagine it will be very difficult to find a pic showing that inboard view of the rack with the pressure line. So: - you confirm I should close my smallest holes (0,4 mm) I made here and move it there (green arrow) Thank you again for these precisions, I am really impressed by your knowledge, we really have a dream team here and I am so glad for that. Of course, the line between this outlet and the fuel line pipe remains not totally clear but things are much more clear now! I would dream to have a precise diagram of the whole construction with the 108 gal. tank, even if the one you posted above, with the 75 gal. one, is great and very useful to understand the fuel system. Moreover, I add it as doc 132 to the collection... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silberpferd Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: So:- you confirm I should close my smallest holes (0,4 mm) I made here and move it there (green arrow) Yes, I can confirme, Olivier. Going through my files, I found this picture that should help. Laurent 5 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Great, Laurent, thanks, I will do the modif! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Hi Olivier, great finds and aportations Laurent, I think this are interesting pictures related although not only 108 gal. tank cheers Edited February 10, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Thanks Antonio, these pics will be very useful especially for the modelers who will choose the 75 gallon tank. I like particularly the third one, HD and lively. And the second is very close from the drawing Laurent brought (doc 128). Pity, I still can't get the pressure line to represent it accurately. I will do a drawing that I will suggest to you, the experts, in order to avoid mistakes. Indeed, I need to have a very precise idea of these detail to scratch something convincing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) thanks to you Olivier too oh wait, some more 108 gall in color! cheers Edited February 10, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 found the other one in even better quality! cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Antonio, I especially love this great color pic and I add it to the collection: It brings some more very useful precisions I was talking about the pressure line Laurent mentioned above, but also for many other details: ... with a special mention for the helix for me who intend to represent a worn aircraft: Honestly, I didn't expect having as much fun for this build than for my previous one, the Fiat 806. But with all what this team (without forgetting of course Juan Manuel) brings to me, it is a real pleasure to go on. Lively internet and lively Britmodeller!! Cheers Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 It's interesting to see in 134b that the wear on the leading edges of the propeller blades does not extend to the cuffs, perhaps they were not metal. There are also several cases where the paper tanks have smooth nose and tail sections and appear to be grey rather than silver, more useful information. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Yes, John, we have definitely many versions of these tanks!! Return to my build: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) I'm glad that helps, yes Olivier, that picture is quite fascinating, I realized the image was reversed or mirror position by the propeller direction also the gun camera in the wrong wing, I uploaded again corrected cheers Edited February 10, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Well observed Antonio! No problem, as soon as possible, I will do the modif for the docs 134... Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlow Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 15 hours ago, silberpferd said: I hope those will help. I was lucky enough to get close to the P-51d displayed at Dübendorf in Switzerland, which is probably the most original Mustang survivor. Laurent, excellent, just what I needed. I'm currently fabricating a canvas boot around the tail gear leg on my Revell 1/32 kit, based on your images.. Will post on my thread when it is finished. Again, many thanks. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Biggles87 said: It's interesting to see in 134b that the wear on the leading edges of the propeller blades does not extend to the cuffs, perhaps they were not metal. There are also several cases where the paper tanks have smooth nose and tail sections and appear to be grey rather than silver, more useful information. John Hi John, that it is correct, the cuffs were made out of rubber, however the P-51K was delivered with the Aeroproducts propeller that was cuffless, more info here:http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/thehangar/index.php?topic=108.0 cheers Edited February 10, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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