Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 Thanks again for these new great docs and links, Antonio, and for the kind words! I add some of the best ones, with a question however about the doc. 114: 1) this doc mentions 110-gallon tank. I suppose it refers to the 108-gallon one... 2) but the very simple construction it shows is contradicted by the other ones, especially the great "Happy Jack..." ones, but also the screen capture from the video above (doc. 116): Doc 115: This great pic of the "Happy Jack" flying, confirms that there was only 1 filler cap (unlike what Eduard suggests) situated left on both sides. On this point, the Tamiya tank is correct. It is definitely a very good base, just to improve with some details. Among the many "Happy Jack" great pics I could see, I noticed that one. On this very well restored aircraft, representing a very clean (factory exit) version, we can however see rivets lines on the wing, and even a slightly corrugated surface, especially on the ailerons. I would say the surface is not totally smooth. On a worn aircraft as the Missouri in spring 1945, we may suppose it was still a bit less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 " Happy Jack's Go Buggy " is one of my favourite Mustang schemes and what I intend for my Meng kit if I can get some decals with the correct colours, so this is an extra bonus for me.Thanks again to Antonio for posting them, and to you Olivier for starting this thread and encouraging him to do so. My last word on the wings ( promise ) the rivets on the flaps and ailerons were not puttied which accounts for their different appearance. Cheers John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 As I said above, the Tamiya 108 gallon tanks provided in the kit are finally much better than the Eduard Brassin set. Considering that most of this set is "to throw", what may be used from it? Imho, just a few things: - the mounting straps are good, with their bended fine bottoms on top. I wonder if I will use them or represent by scratch these bended bottoms... If you decide to apply red under them, avoid the decals imho, paint is better and more sure (low tack decals) - except the red strips, the decal sheet is good and very useful, to represent the inscriptions on the tanks. Pity, I don't think it can be bought separately... Because I try to build an accuracy replica, I needed this decal sheet and I can't regret to have bought the set. As most of other modelers, I try to use the best of each solutions available, and I can decide to buy a set just for a single detail missing everywhere else (the canopy rails, fe). And sometimes, the scratch is the best solution, as for the tanks hoses fe. Eduard goes further than Tamiya (nothing in the Tamiya kit about them) on this point, but the flat PE is not a good solution to represent them. Hope it helps the next builders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, Biggles87 said: My last word on the wings ( promise ) the rivets on the flaps and ailerons were not puttied which accounts for their different appearance. You are right, John, and moreover, Tamiya represents rivets on them (that I sanded a bit to decrease them however...). But I also see very discreet rivets lines on the wing (maybe my imagination ). However, I agree with you, we should leave aside this question now. But before, I want to explain my model making philosophy: I try to represent an accurate replica, but in the same time (I speak like our new president Macron ) I want to show something pleasant for the eyes. Let's take the example of the cockpit and radio compartment. If I had been only in a complete will of truth, I would not have underlined with lights the reliefs on battery, radio, fuel gauge, hoses etc. The joystick handle would not have these cross lines on both sides. I try to deal between accuracy and artistic (or more modestly aesthetic) considerations. With a nearly full black radio compartment as it was, we would not see anything and the result would be poor and dull. I consider it is the same for the rivets lines on wings. But of course, I am aware that this is my own way to see things. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 I am probably going to use the very good Eduard PE1 mounting straps (when it is bad, I say so, when it is good too...) that will give more relief than my previous version with Bare metal (that I will remove to avoid an excess of thickness). And in such conditions (and because only imbeciles never change of mind), I will probably apply red under the PE1... I began to work on this PE1 part, beginning by putting the brass part, once cut from the sprue, over a flame. This has several good consequences: - the brass turns softer, easier to roll and bend - it turns a bit more silver, losing its very gold look - it turns a bit corroded, very realistic on a weathered aircraft. Warning: when rolling the part, take care with the bended bottom, roll in the good way, not like me... Happily, I could do the correction, placing again my part over the flame before. More as soon as possible... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Blimey! me who wanted to use the nice Eduard mounting straps, they are too short for the Tamiya tanks, fitted for the Eduard ones, of smaller diameter! I have to think about this problem... Maybe I will do them by scratch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Do you have any adhesive aluminium tape? That might work. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 No, I don’t. Do you have a reference to recommend me? Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Sorry Olivier but I don't have a reference for tape specifically recommended for modelling. I cut mine from a roll left behind by a heating engineer when he came to service our boiler. You should be able to get some from a heating/plumbing supplier or try Amazon. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Tesa alu tape ordered on Amazon, I should get it on tuesday. I didn't know this product. I hope it will have the good thickness. Thanks anyway John for that tip Today, I was working pro, so no model making except a bit this morning... Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 This morning, I have completely removed the 2 "mounting straps" reliefs on the Tamiya tanks, because the red strips on these tanks had no relief at all. So, I could also decrease a bit the diameter but my Eduard mounting straps are still a bit too short (but it is better, anyway). More soon... A few hours later: I made a dry fit assembly with the parts B8/9 and the tanks supports Z1and finally, it should be OK with the Eduard mounting straps, because of the small brackets on Z1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 I have finally, instead of painting, chosen to use decals for the red strips, but better quality (cut in the Italeri 1/32 Mirage III sheet). Now the challenge will be to glue the Eduard mounting straps without damaging the strips (I applied of coat of satin varnish to decrease the brightness of the tanks and decals and to protect the latter). Small gaps have been left for small cyano drops. The other challenge will be to leave a very small part of red visible under the straps in some areas. More soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 My 108 gallon drops are over (except the hoses to scratchbuild, of course). As I supposed, cementing the straps over the decals was a very delicate step. The decals tend to move... If I had to do it again, I would choose the painting option for these red strips, definitely. Now it's done, and the result is quite nice, with the metal look of the straps contrasting what the satin look of the paper tanks... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 This beautiful pic (thanks Antonio) showing a very well restored P-51D quite close from the Missouri deserved to be included in our collection. It shows many interesting details (arrows). Notice among others the corrugated surface around the rivets on top (1), the black rivets on the alu windscreen (2), the brown escape traces (3), the flat black end of the propeller (4) etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio argudo Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) Hi Olivier, beautiful image indeed , n6 is the gun camera opening, also look this form the aerodetail book: the survivor Mustangs today wear decorations choosen by their owners, not the original ones, there is at least one exception that I know today and is Robin Olds Scat VI which it was identified by his serial number and painted that way, you can see here the list and history of all survivor Mustangs today: http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/survivors/complete_survivors cheers! Edited February 7, 2018 by antonio argudo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 Hi Antonio, thanks for these new pics and for the list (The Missouri is missing, of course, but not the Squibby's Daddy's Girl). I made the enlargement below to show that Eduard did not invent the parts PE5 and PE4. I was wondering above if they were present or not (see my post #378) and, up to now, I did not find pics showing them so I decided not to represent them. But we know now that some versions of the 108 gallon drop tanks had these elements. Eduard was certainly inspired by these Aerodetail pics... Now the question for me is: what version did we have on the Missouri?? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Looking for other pics of the Missouri, especially to see what version of the 108 gallon we had on this aircraft, I found a better version of my previous doc. 23. I have edited my post#88 on p. 4, to replace the previous one, doing the same with the enlargement 23a (post#179 on p. 8). I reproduce here the latter, to show that imho, the pressure and fuel lines were not vertical ones (PE4 Eduard) and so, the part PE7 was probably missing too. In other words, I don't think the Aerodetail version above (doc 119) was the one we could find on the Missouri Armada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 This pic below confirms that the Eduard Brassin wheel is globally better than the Tamiya one: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Now let's compare the tail wheels provided by Tamiya and in the Eduard Brassin set: and let's see this tail wheel on some docs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Scrapiron Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Great looking project and you certainly are putting in the research legwork. Your question as to the accuracy of the tanks in the Eduard set is right there in the instructions you included in your post (#378 above) Note that the front section of the tank has an option... part R4 (where your arrows are pointing) is labeled "Late Version" and has the two filler caps. Just to the right of that is a second nose R3 labeled "Early Version" that has the single cap. So in your later post (#391) you included this set of reference photos... ... where the top right is the Later tank (Eduard part R4 with two caps) and the lower photos are of an Early tank (Eduard part R3 with single cap) Not a case of Eduard being wrong, merely offering option of two different versions. I think you may have overlooked the option on the instruction sheet. I must say that with all the research you are doing we are all getting a wonderful look at the Mustang through your project. Keep up the great work!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 First of all, welcome on the thread Ol'Scrapiron, and thank you for your kind comments and encouragements! I mentioned the 2 versions in my post#362 and I found a precision about these 2 versions (see my post#365), suggesting that the early version (R3 in the Eduard set) concerned the P-47, while the P-51 (especially in the spring of 1945) had the late version (R4). But maybe some early versions were still used too, because I don't think (without certainty) the Missouri had the R4 version on the pic 23a (post #392). Another question concerns the connector (PE7 in the Eduard set). Here too, I don't see the vertical hoses that would go with this connector on the doc 23a. This connector is visible on some of our docs, while it is missing on others. In the doubt, I won't use the PE7 part, but here, without certainty... Antonio, help!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silberpferd Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 08/02/2018 at 06:28, Olivier de St Raph said: Looking for other pics of the Missouri, especially to see what version of the 108 gallon we had on this aircraft, I found a better version of my previous doc. 23. I have edited my post#88 on p. 4, to replace the previous one, doing the same with the enlargement 23a (post#179 on p. 8). I reproduce here the latter, to show that imho, the pressure and fuel lines were not vertical ones (PE4 Eduard) and so, the part PE7 was probably missing too. In other words, I don't think the Aerodetail version above (doc 119) was the one we could find on the Missouri Armada. Hello, On earlier P-51D models, you only had the fuel line coming out in front of the bomb rack. The pressure line was coming out on the inboard side of the bomb rack. Also, regarding the tail wheel leg, it was usualy covered by an olive drab canvas. Hope this helps. Laurent 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Welcome and thank you Laurent, it does help, definitely. About the tail wheel leg wrapped in the canvas, I had noticed that in some pics but in some others (like the ones I posted above), the leg was visible. And I used to wonder if this wrapping canvas was used at this time or if it had been used later. So you bring me the answer, and I will certainly represent it like that. About the version of drop tank, what do you think? Do you think I am right thinking the Missouri had the earlier version tanks on the pics 20, 23 and 106? As for my previous build, the Fiat 806, there are details on which it is difficult to be sure... Furthermore, I wonder what this aircraft has become... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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