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Olivier de St Raph

Missouri Armada P-51D Mustang: documents and partial scratch from the Tamiya 1/48 kit

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Hello to all,

After the amazing saga my last build has been (a vintage race car, the Fiat 806 Corsa at 1/12 Italeri, see if interested the summarize here: 

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwif_vra5cnXAhUGuhoKHYo9BJIQFgg4MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.britmodeller.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F235028933-fiat-806-corsa-112-a-true-to-original-replica%2F&usg=AOvVaw35SjHJwOHWiadD7NM-4lu3 ), I begin a new build, very different (I am used to alternate a vehicle and an aircraft up to now).

Of course, many builds have ever been dedicated to the Tamiya P 51D Mustang, especially on Britmodeller... I saw particularly the Squibby one, begun very recently and very nice, that will be definitely a source of inspiration. But as every build is different and personal, I decided to dive again in the Brit bath!

 

I must precise too that I will take a good part of my inspiration in the great Juan Manuel Villalba DVD, for which I made the translation in french for the subtitles. Juan is a very famous modeler and a real gentleman, who learnt me a lot in model making and photography, he is a master and a friend, even if we couldn't meet up to now (we live far away one to the other one, pity...).

 

Before beginning the build, a word of history:

 

John Brooke England was born in 1923 at Caruthersville, Missouri. His service number was O-739263 and he joined the 362nd FS of the 357th FG in April 1943 as a 1/Lt meaning that he was part of the original cadre that left the ZI in November 1943 for the UK. He was promoted to Captain and then to Major. He took command of the 362nd FS on 25 August 1944. He served two tours with the 357th FG for a total of 108 operational missions giving a total of 460 hours combat flying time. He was the second highest scorer in the 357th with a total of 17.5 victories. England finished his second tour and rotated home on 26 January 1945. He remained in the service after the war and was killed in an F-86 crash in November 1954 in France. 

 

I began my build logically by preparing the parts of the section 1 and some other ones, placing them in a box with compartments, that I got in the Italeri's kit (one of the best part of this kit, definitely :lol:):

 

xXeqHA.jpg

 

N.B: I just made the photo, so the radio compartment is ever begun...

 

After the parts preparation, I began the cockpit by removing some details to replace them by new ones (arrow 1, and the radio). I didn't use the Eduard P.E part 47, too thin, and replaced it by 0,3 mm thick tin wire (arrow 3)

oiWVWt.jpg

 

I must precise now that, differently with Juan, who made the radio by total scratch (amazing), I used the very recent Eduard photoetched set for Airfix kit (ref. 49853), that I had to adapt to the Tamiya kit:

 

 

Gf9jnw.jpg

 

N.B: here too, I just made the photo, some parts have been removed and ever used.

 

 

The screws on the side were made from very small portions cut in 0,2 mm thick tin wire (Juan cuts in stretched plastic).

The tabs come from another Eduard PE set.

jyat3Q.jpg

 

N.B: I had to adapt the A 17 Tamiya part to the Eduard 42 one, smaller (for Airfix) and accidently, I cut a portion of the floor and radio support. Of course, I will do the necessary correction...

 

 

IMPORTANT:

I have decided (lately, I had to edit my posts) to number the pics:

- the assembly pics will be numbered in yellow 

- the docs will be numbered in black (white if the background is black). The different versions (enlargements, fe) of a same doc will have a letter a, b, c... after the number.

So, it will be easier to mention a pic in the debates we should have.

 

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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I have just bought, to complete my 2017 Eduard P 51 interior set (for Airfix) the older one Eduard made for Tamiya in 2002:

gEoJGT.png

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I realize I should have begun by looking for docs before beginning my build. As I begin with the radio, here is a very good pic I found on the  net. If I could get the same quality on different angles, it would be great!

Anyway, I will modify my work consequently...

 

0hNtCL.png

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That's a great photo of the  radio compartment, they are usually taken from the side so you don't see the smaller boxes to the side of the battery, thanks for posting it. 

 

John

 

 

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You're welcome, John. If you had the radio compartment side view you mention, I would be pleased you to post it here (both sides would be great...).

I began to scratchbuild some elements, and will post soon a pic.

On the other hand, I have now many good photos of the cockpit, dashboard, seat and lateral panels, especially thanks to Juan Manuel and to Squibby...

 

Olivier

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If I want to represent this box in relation with the radio, behind the seat (red arrow), I have to open a rectangular window in the Tamiya A17 part.

 

lii1jh.png

 

To do that delicate opening, it is necessary to remove first the front panel. It will be placed again at the end.

 

QV83Y2.jpg

 

I first made holes by drilling, and then used files to get the rectangular opening.

ht1csQ.jpg

 

More soon...

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I admire your attention to detail but I think I might have cheated and just stuck a black painted rectangle onto the panel with a couple of wires leading to it. I don't think that much of it will be visible when the seat structure is fitted.

 

John

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4 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

I don't think that much of it will be visible when the seat structure is fitted.

Not much visible but a bit visible, because there is a gap between the seat and the radio compartment, John. I have checked that before taking the decision to represent these details... A black painted rectangle would not give the same result imho

 

Olivier

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I have lightened the photo above to have a better perception of the rear part of the radio compartment. Below, the kit's part. This comparison shows that in the original compartment:

1 - the half circle is too short

2 - there are much more rivets

3 - there is a central stem, not represented

4 - the rounded arm going to the outside is not represented too.

 

Of course, as for the box behind the seat, these details won't be very visible at the end, but however I will try to represent them more accurately.

 

 

gbC5QW.jpg

 

qHwiKA.jpg

 

All these things are much more noticeable on a top view:

QRDAKq.jpg

 

P.S: even if, of course, we can't definitely refer to the originals for the colors, my green is a bit too yellow, imho. I made the mix suggested by JMV in the DVD (85% XF3, 5% XF1 and 10% XF 70) but even with graph paper on the outside of the my mixing cup, it is not easy... I have added a bit of dark green XF 70, it should be OK now... 

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I like your approach to model making, trying to emulate as much of the detail as possible. You are doing a fine job so far and I look forward to seeing more of your work.

 

Andy

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Thanks again for the extra detail. This is probably an area which most of us neglect in favour of adding extra detail to the cockpit.

 

John

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Thank you so much Andy and John! Pity, this will to be as close as possible from truth means also a very slow progress. I needed 14 months for my last build, the Fiat 806 "Grand Prix" at 1/12, a vintage race car for which an amazing research had to be done (not alone, happily, our thread "806 research and scratchbuilds" had finally 187 pages...).

I have less and less room to expose my models, that's why I prefer to take my time (quality more than quantity) and give the best of myself and always try to improve my skills in the modeling job, as many modelers do I suppose. 

 

 

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Some photos of the seat and radio compartment are missing to me, despite deep research on the net.

If some of you had any doc allowing me to precise in particular the seat attachment, armor and space behind the seat (between cockpit and radio compartment), I would be very grateful to you...

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The seat back A15, much too thick, has been seriously thinned:

260PDl.jpg

 

N.B: I have bought on internet a second kit (about 22€), that will allow me:

- to do comparison photos like this one.

- to do rehearsals, especially for rivets making (this build will be my first experience with Rosie the Riveter, that I just ordered.)

- to have replacement parts in case...

 

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This is pity the only doc I have of this area. In addition to the central rectangular space ever evoqued, there are on the side opening to do in the kit's part: on the left side (right on the photo), there seems to be a big spring, in a fine rectangular opening. It is less clear on the right side (left side on the photo), but there is no spring and probably cable routing.

 

OcWJ2T.png

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 Hi Olivier

I looked through my Mustang references yesterday and do not have any photos for the area between the seat and the radio compartment. I think that the object you marked as a big spring might be a hose. There are springs in the seat assembly but with a much smaller diameter..

For future reference, while  looking I found a photo of a Mustang on the Dallas assembly line which had zinc chromate primer covering the upper wing surface from leading edge to the flap/aileron hinge line.

 

hope this helps

 

John

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12 minutes ago, Biggles87 said:

I think that the object you marked as a big spring might be a hose. There are springs in the seat assembly but with a much smaller diameter..

Thanks John for your contribution.

About the "big spring" or "hose" question, we would need another pic showing it better, but I see coils, that's why for now, I go on thinking it is a kind of spring, much much thicker than the tiny ones on the seat sides.

 

P.S: I have sent an email to the Le Bourget musée de l'Air et de l'Espace (they have a P 51D) if they can help me for this area...

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Your thread was hard to find , dear Olivier ! I want to wish you a full success , but I will remain in the background as a spectator and leave the comments to the specialists .  Have a good time and many greetings !   Hannes

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Thanks a lot, my dear Hannes. Your hawk eyes would be very useful to me actually... As maybe you could read, we are again in questions of coils... ;)

 

Many greetings!

 

Olivier

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Dear Olivier , the only airplane kits I ever built were the big-scale airfix kits about 35 years ago . These were fantastic kits and I don´t know if they still are available .

I was building the Spitfire , the Hurricane , the Stuka , the Me 109 and the Mustang . I remember there were small electro engines for rotating the propeller .

I know that you don´t build german airplanes of WW 2 because of the Nazis . I don´t agree with that because it´s a part of technical history as well.

Many british and american modellers build german airplanes and a lot of german modellers like to build airplanes of the allies as well .

Logically you should not build soviet airplanes . Both Hitler and Stalin were evil mass-murderers and there´s no better or worse in my opinion .

Let´s be glad these dark ages are over now and we can look back at history and learn by it .  People of the whole world are united in this great forum and that´s also an example how the world should be .   Many greetings !  Hannes

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Of course Hannes I agree that building a WWII german aircraft doesn’t mean you are a Nazi... And I built a soviet Yak 3  knowing that Stalin was an awful dictator too...

But it is so, I just can’t represent a svastika, it represents so bad things for me.

And from a historical point of view, let’s admit that the Yak 3 were on the right side...

All the best

Olivier

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For the most Germans the swastica is a symbol of pure evil as well and  it´s forbidden in Germany to show this symbol in the public .

And it´s true that the Yaks helped to get rid of the Nazi regime . My father was forced to participate in the war against Russia and when he was about to die some years ago he was hallucinating  and heared the sound of the Yak engines again and suffered  very much by " hearing " this noise . War is hell and we all should do our best to prevent it .

And there are still a lot of open wounds  which cannot closed so easily . I know about that and all I can do is not to repeat the same errors of history .

But as modellers we are some kind  of documentarists as well and we should show good and bad from a neutral point of view like  historicans do .

It´s up to us to evolve into the right direction . Symbols and bad ideologies  will loose their dangerous potential if we are able to analyze what happened .

Seen from this point of view we are researchers and should show the whole picture .

Many greetings !  Hannes

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