1/72 Airfix P-51D - (finished. next:P-51D-5-NA Short-Fuse Sallee +Academy P51B)

[Torbjorn]

Edit: After completing this, I've continued building more Mustangs  - rather than spamming the forum with several threads, I just keep using this.

 

 

Another "return to the hobby thread". First some manners by presenting myself, since this is my first post in this forum. I'm from Sweden, stopped modelling when I became a teenager -  now I am middle-aged (<-first admittance of said fact) and have a 5-year old son to whom I recently bought a model. We built it together and I think I enjoyed it even more than he did. He was hooked though, so I bought him another, one of the new Airfix Mustangs. But this time he didn't let me help him! Not a bit! My fingers were itching, so I bought one more for dad, which will be the subject of this thread 

 

The kit is the new P-51D from Airfix (box art below). It depicts a P51D-10-NA with serial number 44-14207, as flown by Lt Eugene James of 352nd FG, 328th FS. Code PE-E, nickname Rose Marie (James's girl?) AND Kelly Kid 2 on the opposite side (apparently some relative of the crew chief).  Several images are available here: http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=352 

 

 

It's completely different hobby now, thanks to the advent of the internet and modern machining. So much information... almost overload. Last time I built a model I had access to exactly two books with colour profiles in the library. Decided to write this log in the hope I could get some feedback and to have a log to get back to - if not for anything else than as a reminder on what not to do   I aim for historical accuracy, as I see models as little windows to the past, so any correction or criticism is appreciated. 

 

I've started already, assembled cockpit and fuselage. I built Airfix's blue-nosed mustang sometime in the 80s or 90s, but that was something different. The level of detail and fit of the pieces in this upgraded kit is fantastic. Anyhow I added some bits and pieces.

 

 

 

Fuselage assembled - no gaps at all. Leaving the propeller until later probably makes for easier build and painting, but I feel something is amiss if it doesn't spin.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Torbjorn
competed, updating title

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Nice to see your work. Always nice to hear that a new generation is interested in the hobby. 

[CedB]

Welcome back to the hobby!

Nice to see some good internals with added bits - looking good.

[Torbjorn]

Thanks!

 

I was happy when my son showed interest, and hope he will keep it up. 

 

Assembled the wings, consisting of one lower part and two upper. One of the upper wing halves was bent like a banana. Tried fixing it by  heating and keeping in the correct place, but should probably have realised that an open flame is not the most controlled way of applying heat... No matter how careful I thought I was, the leading edge and aileron started smelting and deforming. It did solve the banana-problem though. This image is before the fix:   

 

 

I didn't take any after pictures, but glued the parts together, applied putty and sanded. No or little trace of the calamity can be seen  The panel lines on the P-51D wings were puttied and painted over with aluminium paint at the factory. I've seen many others doing this so on there model, so I wanted to try. I didn't want to make it perfectly smooth - even though this was the intention in real life - just to reduce the prominent lines in the kit but still keep them visible. The image below shows the state before sanding. I've also cut off the little gun stubs, to be replaced with brass tubing.

 

 

I also glued rudder and stabilisers to the fuselage and while waiting for that starting playing with the drop tanks. The added fuel capacity and range of the P-51, enabling them to escort the bombers all the way, was of such import I wanted to detail the tanks a bit more. I will add the pressure and fuel lines, which better will indicate the purpose of these things (I built one or two Mustangs as a kid - I remember I thought the tanks were bombs!). 

 

Fuel from the 75 gallon drop tank was led to the engine through lines connected in the front of the tanks and up into the wings just above. Pressure inside the tank was maintained through another line, which appears to have been routed differently depending on model. If my googling was correct, this particular plane would have had the line routed backwards and entering the wing somewhere on the inner side of the rack, about half way back. The point of attachment are moulded on the drop tanks in the model. I cut them away, added a stub of 0.3 mm  (inside diameter) brass tube where the pressure and fuel lines will go - they will be represented by brass wire. I did the same on the wings for the fuel lines. For the pressure lines I will just make holes and push them through. The image below shows the top halves of the drop tanks with added tube and wire. The wires will double as support for the drop tanks, since the points of connection are very small.

 

 

 

I have painted the wheel wells green... some more browsing indicates that it's more probable that they were aluminium on this particular individual, and that anti-corrosion paint wasn't applied there for this batch of aircraft.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Torbjorn
spelling

[amblypygid]

Very interested to see how this turns out, Torbjorn. That's some micro-engineering work going on there; looking good.

[Bedders]

Nice start and I'll be following. I'm looking for the bit where you broke the control column when getting it off the sprue. I always do on these, so if you didn't, I'd like to a, know how you avoided it and b, buy you a pint. 👍

 

Justin

Edited November 19, 2017 by Bedders

[Torbjorn]

I have to earn that pint some other time - not only did I break it; I did it twice. First on my son's kit ('here, please let me help you with that, it's really fragile'.. *snap*), then on my own. The second time I did get it off the sprue by carefully sawing it off with a small razor saw but then broke it while trying to get off the excess plastic - by sanding, a scalpel might have worked. I glued the bottom piece to the floor and then fused the top part on. You can see where it snapped on this picture. Next time I'll just cut off the base and push a brass replacement into it.

 

  

Edited November 19, 2017 by Torbjorn

[Lord Riot]

Fantastic to see, it's looking really good! 

 

I'm similar in that I must have made about 100 models up to the age of 16 then stopped, only to start again now many years later! You're right how much has changed, there's so much info now, and extras. Plus no more of that Humbrol paint that's almost impossible to wash off brushes and skin! It all seems to be water soluble these days.

[Torbjorn]

Lord R, I too spent many hours breathing Humbrol enamel fumes as a kid, much to my mother's dismay. I use Vallejo paints now - it happened to be the only brand in the only local hobby shop, but so far I like them and there's no smell either (not necessarily more healthy but certainly more pleasant).  I did buy Humbrol no 14 for the blue nose when ordering the kit online, as per kit recommendation. There's much modelling opinions on the appropriate shade of blue of the Bodney Mustangs. There were apparently at least three shades: an early light blue used primarily on planes with camo, a second mid-blue shade and a third darker shade. As far as I can guess, the time and subject fits with the middle version, which I believe can be represented by Humbrol 14.

 

I've added most of the large bits and "primed" the model. Using citation marks since I'm not really using a primer colour, just several layers of the Vallejo Model air silver. The putty I used to fill the wind panel lines was a messy job indeed and needed a lot of additional sanding.

 

 
 
 I read some complaints on the elevator balance tabs. I believe they are represented quite nicely - they only need a small improvement. Gently scribe the perpendicular line along the forward edge to make a line separating it from the stabiliser, and it's fine. That line is indeed missing on the plastic.

 

 

 Made an attempt to paint the flap indicator as well. Tried free-handing it, didn't work, then made the smallest tape masks I ever want to attempt. Will see later how that turns out. Here I have first painted it black, marked the three stripes that should remain black and painted over with white, using thinned paint.

 

 

Preparing the undercarriage as well. Stole some sewing thread to make pressure tubes to the brakes (or whatever the English term is), dyed black. A bit fiddly to get the loop around the shock absorber correct. Painted the struts with Vallejo aluminium - and wheel,  wheel wells and inside of gear doors too. 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Torbjorn

[Yvan S]

I was just wondering how the French blue turned out on your model, and perhaps if you had a Vallejo shade that corresponded to the Humbrol reference. I'm also building this kit and I've probably done too much research as the 'Bodney blue' is such a controversial shade!!! Also I really like your build, and being sixteen right now makes me wonder if I'll really stop for such a long stretch of time. Keep up the amazing work!!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

@Yvan S ... I built models till i was 34 then took a 10yr hiatus. Sometimes you can get through lifes issues with no problem, Sometimes not. I wish you luck in that endeavor and hope you dont stop building. 

 

Dennis

Edited November 24, 2017 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[rob Lyttle]

Bodney Blue, eh?

I just wandered through my build without even knowing a controversy existed. I think Yvan you're right - too much research can be a pain .

Just to add to the debate, the blue I used (humbrol enamel) has 52 on the lid .

 

Love the build, it's a great little kit.

[Torbjorn]

21 hours ago, Yvan S said:

I was just wondering how the French blue turned out on your model, and perhaps if you had a Vallejo shade that corresponded to the Humbrol reference. I'm also building this kit and I've probably done too much research as the 'Bodney blue' is such a controversial shade!!! Also I really like your build, and being sixteen right now makes me wonder if I'll really stop for such a long stretch of time. Keep up the amazing work!!

Well, if it does happen I can tell you I have just as much fun now as I had as a kid - with the added joy of novelty. And I didn't miss it a bit until my son started building  

 

I think the blue turned out ok, but I would certainly not go for a lighter shade - I will add some pics so you can judge for yourself. One on the window sill (on an apparently extremely dusty radio) in cold November light, and one in indoor light. No idea for a Vallejo equivalent, but there is a conversion chart available on acrylicsvallejo.com. This is Humbrol 14.

 

 

----

 Added the guns, using brass tube. It's was bit on the thick side, so next time I'll try to get some hypodermic needles, which seem to be popular for this purpose. For myself and future remembrance, I will add a picture describing how I parted the tubes to avoid crushing them or send them flying: threaded on a brass wire and gently rolling a blade back and forth.

 

 

I shut the clam doors: this appears most common looking at images and I just don't like having them open. This did reveal a smallish error with the kit: the slots for positioning the landing light is located too far inboards, the light won't fit with the door shut. Easy to fix though.

 

I painted everything using Vallejo silver, with the panel at the exhausts brushed up with thinned gunmetal. I won't do any washes around panel lines (one technique I wanted to try, but it'll have to wait), the images of this plane shows a quite clean machine and that is how I will depict it.  Aluminium does corrode as soon as someone whispers 'oxygen' though. This makes the surface less even and removes the shine. I have tried to imitate that using a highly thinned grey/blue mix and applying in the middle of all panels and let it flow around and partially dry before wiping off the excess.

 

About shades of colour: I used the Vallejo 'insignia red' for the insignia red on the tail - it looks very purple to me, even with a white undercoat. Anyone knows the authenticity of this colour? Here is an image compared to Airfix box red. 

 

 

 

Stencils have been added, but before continuing with the larger decals I'm waiting for some of this MicroSol stuff to arrive in the mail. Then for some weathering practice - raided the painter shop for some oil colours last week. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Torbjorn

[Yvan S]

1 hour ago, Torbjorn said:

I understand exactly how you feel as my father also started again when I began, I suppose the master does not want to be surpassed by the apprentice  Also for the red I did some research and I'm using the Vallejo 71.003, it seems like a good match to the Airfix 153. However I'm pretty sure that the 003 will turn out as a very bright red, but I'll let you know anyway. 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Yvan S

[Yvan S]

20 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Bodney Blue, eh?

I just wandered through my build without even knowing a controversy existed. I think Yvan you're right - too much research can be a pain .

Just to add to the debate, the blue I used (humbrol enamel) has 52 on the lid .

 

Love the build, it's a great little kit.

Oh it's definitely a pain, I got no information so I'm just going to the store and searching until I find something that satisfies my eye. Next time I will just disregard the issue, it sparks way too much conflict, and besides it's impossible to be 100% accurate, especially with any shade of blue. 

[rob Lyttle]

Must say, that is an odd result with the Red on the tail!

I know that Reds can be sensitive to the colour underneath. When I was looking at doing some bright dayglo red tanks and panels, I got the advice to do a yellow base coat. It was great advice - the difference was startling between that and a white background.

So all I can suggest is try it over yellow and compare.

Does it look like that purple in the pot?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Yes you also have to take into account that the real blue would have faded as well. So you can account for any mismatched colors as fade ? Different batch of paint ? Many reasons to use different shades of a color.

[Winenut]

great to see you back into the old Hobby

 

Goodness me when I got back into it after about a 25 year hiatus I didn't start again with the level of detail and skill you're showing!

 

Well done 

[Torbjorn]

 

Thanks for the compliment

 

 

13 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

Must say, that is an odd result with the Red on the tail!

I know that Reds can be sensitive to the colour underneath. When I was looking at doing some bright dayglo red tanks and panels, I got the advice to do a yellow base coat. It was great advice - the difference was startling between that and a white background.

So all I can suggest is try it over yellow and compare.

Does it look like that purple in the pot?

It is Vallejo model colour 926, which according to their conversion chart corresponds to Humbrol 153. It's called "Rojo/Red", but does look quite purple in the flask. I tried shaking for ages, even removed to cap to be able to stir with a stick. I did try with a yellow base as well, but the result was quite similar - a deeper colour possibly. I have seen models of P-47 and some P-51 with  a quite purple shade on the insignia red surfaces, so I'm not sure it 's the conversion that's off or if it really was that purple. 

 

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Yes you also have to take into account that the real blue would have faded as well. So you can account for any mismatched colors as fade ? Different batch of paint ? Many reasons to use different shades of a color.

Yes - or even distance effect. I'm not overly concerned, as long as it looks "right" I'm happy.  

[Troy Smith]

19 hours ago, Torbjorn said:

About shades of colour: I used the Vallejo 'insignia red' for the insignia red on the tail - it looks very purple to me,

IIRC Vallejo red is a blue red,  as your image shows,  Insignia Red was a orange red 

WW2 era colour,   

 

 

I'd not trust conversion charts too much.

I'm away from my paint,  so can't suggest a better Vallejo colour.

 

 

Neat work on the model

 

HTH

 

[Crimea River]

You are doing a great job so far Torbjorn. Welcome to the club of prepubescent turned prehistoric model builders. I seems that you have rekindled the joy of the felt as a youngster as I have.

 

I'm so glad that your attempt at straightening the "banana" wing didn't end in disaster. As you have discovered, using an open flame for such an exercise is not the way to go and things can go badly very quickly with little opportunity for repair. Though I've not had to deal with this much, I have heard that shaping the plastic after a dip in near boiling water works very well.

 

I for one try not to get too caught up in debates about exact shades of colours for the reasons mentioned. Different paint batches combined with the effects of wear and weather will result in variations anyway so no point in agonizing over the "exact" shade. To me, if it looks close then it's good and your blue to me looks fine.

 

As for the red, though I'm a Tamiya paint user, I do agree that it's critical to apply a light base colour before applying red. I've not heard of using yellow but I tend to spray a coat of white first before spraying on the red. I'm sure yellow works well though too.

 

I really like your attention to detail. for the brake lines, I would suggest that you get yourself various diameters of lead wire or fine solder if you can find it. I work in 1/48 scale and have some down to 0.2mm diameter. This stuff is great for any tubing or wiring representations. Apply a dab of CA to one end and it can then be easily manipulated around bends and secured with intermittent dabs of CA. I'm not sure where in Sweden you might get this stuff but I ordered lead wire from here.

 

Keep up the great work!

 

Andy

Edited November 26, 2017 by Crimea River

[Torbjorn]

Thanks for the input and encouragement, guys! I have slaughtered a lot of old electric appliances and now have a life-supply of wires of different sizes. 

 

I'm not concerned about "exact" shades - whatever that is! - but it'd be nice to be right on 'blue red' or 'yellow red' at least. Reading some pages on googlebooks from 'Colors & Markings of USAAF Fighters in Wwii' it appears that at least late war a quite purple red really was used, or at least officially assigned as insignia red. I believe the guys at Vallejo have read the same book, and judging from image searches so did many other model-makers or plane restorers. I had already repainted the rudder with a different red though - Vallejo flat red. I'm not sad about that, it doesn't look bad and I suppose they used the red cans they had available anyway. And it does give me the opportunity to show off my son's P-51, to compare the red colours   The colour scheme is his own - he saw it in a dream and was determined to make it reality (and he says he doesn't want any more American planes because they only have insignia on one wing)!

 

 

 

 

Still waiting for that MicroSol stuff...

Edited November 29, 2017 by Torbjorn

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Torbjorn said:

I'm not concerned about "exact" shades - whatever that is! - but it'd be nice to be right on 'blue red' or 'yellow red' at least. Reading some pages on googlebooks from 'Colors & Markings of USAAF Fighters in Wwii' it appears that at least late war a quite purple red really was used, or at least officially assigned as insignia red. I believe the guys at Vallejo have read the same book, and judging from image searches so did many other model-makers or plane restorers. I had already repainted the rudder with a different red though - Vallejo flat red. I'm not sad about that, it doesn't look bad and I suppose they used the red cans they had available anyway.

 

I've not heard of a "purple red" 

Avaition units don't  just have a selection of cans of paint available,  they have stores with specified official colours, so they won't just have 'some red'  they will have a specfied colour, eg Insignia Red.

 

The image I posted was of a 4th FG Mustang,  here's a famous shot of Don Gentile

note the other colours look  about right

 

insigina red on these B-17's

 

56th FG P-47's, red cowls

 

 

 

the chap who would most likely know is @Dana Bell  Author of various book on USAAF camo  who may know more.

 

HTH

T

 

 

 

[Torbjorn]

I understand that, but the insignia red in the book I mentioned showed a red that decidedly had quite some blue in it (although not quite as much as that Vallejo), but probably also some yellow. I’m sure there is a clear definition somewhere, but my question is - would that exact shade be used by all units, and why is there so many yellow red images around? Different reds at different times?

 

Here are some examples (restorations, I presume) showing that colour: 

https://media.defense.gov/2010/Sep/21/2000323992/-1/-1/0/100917-F-8224M-020.JPG

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:P-51C_-_Ina_The_Macon_Belle_(3).jpg

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Torbjorn,

 

I'll try to keep this simple, since Insignia Red was a very complicated story during WW2.  There were four insignia reds to contend with:

 

-- Glossy Insignia Red - the ANA color was not changed during the war, and was sometimes used on camouflaged aircraft

 

-- Flat Army Insignia Red - still fairly bright, but not just a matt version of the glossy color

 

-- Non-Specular Navy Insignia Red - another bright, though matt, color, different from the previous two

 

-- British dull Roundel Red - much more of a brownish brick red

 

In the 1942 ANA camouflage paint agreements, the Army color was to be dropped, the Navy color was to be retained for safety and experimental purposes, and the British color was to become the standard insignia color.  This last part was an easy agreement, since the Americans had just decided to drop the use of red in their insignia.

 

When the ANA camouflage chips were printed in 1943, the British color was called "Dull Red" and the Navy color was called "Insignia Red."  It was usually the Navy color that turned up when red was reintroduced in the new barred insignia in spring 1943 - I've never seen a photo that I was convinced showed the use for the British color, and the Army may have used its own shade (just because they tended to pay lip service to the ANA paint agreements).

 

In 1944 ANA Dull Red was renamed Insignia Red, while the bright, ex-Navy Insignia Red was renamed Bright Red.

 

While a trained eye (Nick, are you there?) might see one shade as slightly bluer, none of them really looked purple to my eye.  But since all sorts of paint were used when available, feel free to use the model paint that you find most satisfying.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Edited December 2, 2017 by Dana Bell