RF-4C vs RF-4E

[Silverkite]

On 11/14/2017 at 1:46 PM, Jens said:

Not quite, as the rounded inner wing pylons and starboard instrument console in the aft cockpit are not present in the kit. Also, I am not sure all 1/72nd scale RF-4B releases have both wing types.

That said, most RF-4s can be built from the RF-4B kit.

 

Jens

 

If I remember it correctly as I no longer own them anymore but a single Ka-9 kit with scavenged pieces from remains taken from evilbay and other builders

 

Ka-9, 00071, 00675 boxing had both wings

00056, 00935 and 01922 had only the thick wing

 

RF-4B can be converted straight into an RF-4C but be aware that some E and RF boxing do have a little extra antenna and the curious thing about it is that Hasegawa randomly included it on any given box,once I had 6 F-4J Liberty Bell all of them purchased a month after their release only two of them had the antenna,others didn't,the same happened with 00790 boxing one had all the ARN-101 fairing and the other didn't, ditto for some F-4B/N boxings maybe 00640 and 00365 with missing IR fairings

 

Luigi

[Rhino]

On 12/11/2017 at 10:24 AM, Jens said:

I'm sorry to say so but there is so much incorrect information in this thread.

 

First of all, all RF-4B/C/E have the same length, and the general shape of the nose is the same, although there are two camera bay shapes (one angled and one rounded).

 

The first 36 RF-4Bs had the thinner wings of the F-4B/N (i.e. no large bulges).

The last ten RF-4Bs had the bulged wings just like all the RF-4Cs and RF-4Es (those RF-4Bs are all in the 1573xx BuNo range).

Almost all RF-4Bs had the angled nose profile. Only exception were the last three RF-4Bs - they had the rounded nose profile.

RF-4Bs started out with the shorter burner cans and unslotted tail planes. Later on, the remaining airframes were retrofitted with the longer burner cans and slotted tail planes. ECM updates were also carried out at some point.

 

All RF-4Cs had the thicker/bulged wings.
All RF-4Cs had the shorter burner cans.

All RF-4Cs had the unslotted tail planes.

Initial RF-4Cs had the angled nose profile, but around FY66 airframes the rounded profile started appearing. Some RF-4Cs were retrofitted with the rounded nose profile (I have never seen it the other way around). You really need a picture of the aircraft you want to build to be sure.

 

All RF-4Es had/have the thicker/bulged wings.

Original Greek and Turkish RF-4Es (all FY77) had/have the slatted wings of the F-4E/F/G.
All RF-4Es had/have the longer burner cans.

Most RF-4Es had/have the slotted tail planes. German RF-4Es had the unslotted tail planes.

Most RF-4Es had/have the rounded nose profile. German RF-4Es had the angled nose profile, and so did the initial Israeli RF-4Es. Later Israeli RF-4Es had the rounded nose profile.

Now, those are only the general differences. Added to that are all the details; cockpit, antenna suite etc.

HTH,

 

Jens

 

Jens

Your RF-4C info is nearly correct. The 2 YRF-4C's were converted on the line from F-4B's, (62-12199 and 62-12200) and also they were the only purpose built RF-4's to retain the rear sparrow troughs, when all other RF-4's were plated over. I stress here they were never fitted with recce equipment and indeed, 62-12200 went on to be a long term trials aircraft to finish up as the CCV aircraft before retirement.

I am of course being pedantic here as Jens info is excellent, or at least a match for my knowledge.

 

Ted

[Jens]

10 hours ago, Rhino said:

Jens

Your RF-4C info is nearly correct. The 2 YRF-4C's were converted on the line from F-4B's, (62-12199 and 62-12200) and also they were the only purpose built RF-4's to retain the rear sparrow troughs, when all other RF-4's were plated over. I stress here they were never fitted with recce equipment and indeed, 62-12200 went on to be a long term trials aircraft to finish up as the CCV aircraft before retirement.

I am of course being pedantic here as Jens info is excellent, or at least a match for my knowledge.

 

Ted

You're right, Ted. I left out the YRF-4Cs - and the RF-4E Kais.

Btw, another Ted was one of the reasons the F-4 became my favourite aircraft. Since you're into Phantoms too, can you name that Ted? 

 

Jens

 

[Rhino]

That would be Ted Taylor, sadly missed.

 

[Hook]

23 hours ago, Rhino said:

The 2 YRF-4C's were converted on the line from F-4B's, (62-12199 and 62-12200) and also they were the only purpose built RF-4's to retain the rear sparrow troughs, when all other RF-4's were plated over. I stress here they were never fitted with recce equipment and indeed, 62-12200 went on to be a long term trials aircraft to finish up as the CCV aircraft before retirement.

 

One of my long term modeling plans is building 62-12200 as the F-4E prototype with a M61 Vulcan fitted in the recce nose, pointing out of the forward camera port.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Jens]

2 hours ago, Rhino said:

That would be Ted Taylor, sadly missed.

 

Indeed! He was such an inspiration. His Phantom articles in Scale Models were great.

 

Jens

[Gundylunch]

Barside, if after all this excellent info forthcoming ( well done lads!! ) you wish for a 1/48 Hasegawa RF-4C pm me, I have a couple and would let one go

[Rhino]

2 hours ago, Hook said:

 

One of my long term modeling plans is building 62-12200 as the F-4E prototype with a M61 Vulcan fitted in the recce nose, pointing out of the forward camera port.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Master do a nice M60 cannon in various scales, though just the barrels.

I have to admit, 62-12200 is my favourite airframe and I still plan on one of each variation of this aircraft. If I can find what it's bu-no should have been as an F-4B I will even do that.

[Hook]

2 hours ago, Rhino said:

Master do a nice M60 cannon in various scales, though just the barrels.

I have to admit, 62-12200 is my favourite airframe and I still plan on one of each variation of this aircraft. If I can find what it's bu-no should have been as an F-4B I will even do that.

 

According to Joe Baugher she was ordered as a YRF-110A Spectre:

Quote

On March 30, McDonnell received a letter of intent for one F-110A (serial number 62-12199), and on May 29, another letter was received for a pair of YRF-110A reconnaissance aircraft (62-12200 and 62-12201).

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Rhino]

49 minutes ago, Hook said:

 

According to Joe Baugher she was ordered as a YRF-110A Spectre:

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

I agree she was ordered as a YRF-110A but in reality an F-4B was taken off the line and converted to the YRF-4C as it was when built.

[bar side]

11 hours ago, Gundylunch said:

Barside, if after all this excellent info forthcoming ( well done lads!! ) you wish for a 1/48 Hasegawa RF-4C pm me, I have a couple and would let one go

Cheers for the offer - will keep it in mind.  Going to have a go at a regular F-4C first and then Christmas so funds may be short until the new year!  

 

Great at info from all and thanks again

[Filler]

Sorry to revive an old (but very informative) thread but I'd like someone to confirm something for me.

 

Whilst still unable to do any modelling I have hung onto my most treasured kits from my stash and one of the 'star' items I have that I WILL one day build is an RF-4C Phantom - Hasegawa kit 09629 'U.S.A.F. Special'. My intention is to build 68-0583 'Starize' as was at RAF Alconbury in 1986/7.

 

From what I've read above, am I correct in thinking that I invested quite heavily in the wrong kit? I've got a chisel-nose only kit and thus can't build a smooth nosed Phantom?

 

And if that is the case, am I now looking for a ludicrously rare and expensive 09557 kit or is there an aftermarket option out there?

[Creepy Pete]

Maybe someone has a spare sprue W for you? It seems to be present in various RF-4B kits and marked not for use in them.

[XV571]

Hi Filler,

 

Don't worry you have the correct kit, 68-0583 definitely had the 'Chisel' type nose. You can clearly see it in these pictures: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000709433L.html and https://www.flickr.com/photos/88867126@N08/16510721235. If you really want to go all out with a detailed camera bay, there's the Aires set 4231 http://acc.kitreview.com/aires4231reviewpb_1.htm which is still available; this also represents the original nose configuration.

To tell between the two, the feature to look for is the lozenge shaped bump under the nose which housed the window for the Station 3 camera; the 'Smooth' nose deleted this: RF-4C 72-0156 (this was the final RF-4C built).

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

[whiskey]

You'll need a ARN-101 set as this aircraft is Arnie equipped

[Filler]

Thanks for all the responses. It's great to know that I do have the correct kit, thanks Jonathan.

 

whiskey, am I correct that the ARN-101 set I need is basically the "lump on the spine in between the TACAN and UHF antennas, nicknamed or referred to as a 'doghouse' antenna".  put that in quotes as I had no idea what it was until I Googled it.

 

Link to source of quote.

[Filler]

I think I owe everyone here an apology. Whilst searching the web for information about the ARN-101, I came across a Britmodeller thread from over 5 years ago in which someone with the username Filler was asking about RF-4C kits in 1:48 scale in order to build 'Starize'. Some of the same forum members as now provided the information back then too.

 

Sorry about that. Sadly, whilst the interest is still strong, I remain in the position where my stash and tools (what I haven't sold off) are still in my parents loft and infrequent visits to this site is all the modelling fix I get.

[Ben Brown]

Hi All,

 

The F-4G doesn't appear to have had the doghouse antenna for the ARN-101, but the F-4E and RF-4C did. It's Part N11 in the Hasegawa RF-4 kits, if you need it. I was told back in the '80s that ARN-101 was a LORAN-based digital nav system, hence the antenna. I don't know why the G didn't have it, but I found several photos of RF-4Cs with the antenna. Cockpit mods included a display on the rear instrument panel and a keypad on the right rear console. Both are easy to scratchbuild. While searching, I ran across this great video of an F-4E that shows the Arnie display (with red glowing numbers) and keypad: YouTube link. 

 

A couple of things Hasegawa missed on their RF-4C kits:

• The kit is intended to use the long J-79 afterburner nozzles fitted to the RF-4E and the last 10(?) RF-4Bs, which were built with F-4J wings, so the aft fuselage reflects that. They intended to just have one plug the short nozzles into the fuselage for the RF-4C without any other mods. The vast majority of people won't notice the difference, but if it bothers you, you'll have to extend the natural metal area aft ~1.5 mm.  I did it with styrene sheet, and it was a pain in the neck, requiring a lot of sanding on the afterburner nozzles to get them to fit inside the reworked aft fuselage. Here is a great article showing the differences: Tailhook Topics link
• Don't use Part Q4 in the aft cockpit. It's only for Navy F-4s. You'll have to scratch a circuit breaker panel to replace it, unless you use an aftermarket cockpit. I stole one from an inexpensive True Details F-4C cockpit. 

Best of luck getting back to your stash! 

 

Ben

 

[Pavel_Russo]

Hello, fellow modelers.

Thank you very much for many proper explanations making it clear and obvious.

I am FNG here, and I came across this forum looking for info on the difference between RF-4C and E. I have an old Ital’s C/E which damn sure is too poor towards interior and exterior (so now I ain’t going to start this build), and I have found Revell’s RF-4E which I would like to transform back into C as soon as I find a proper “board” and get enough info on so called angled-nose RF-4Cs with diamond-shape camera fairing port (as I understood, the smooth-nose RF-4Cs had a flat nose belly). This is the only issue. The difference between the wings, nozzles etc is obvious.

And yes sir, I am talking about 1/72 and VN war Photo-Phantoms.

Anyways, how do I post a bunch of pics here? There is a few pretty much useful structural and general assembly ones I found in old scan of RF-4C manual.

 

Again, I appreciate your info, colleagues, and have a good one, y’all!

 

Peace out -

Pavel.

[XV571]

Hello Pavel and to Britmodeller!

 

The German Air Force RF-4Es were all 'angled nose' aircraft so the 1/72 Revell RF-4E is a good starting point and can be easily converted to a RF-4C. As is mentioned in earlier posts you will need to find some early 'short can' exhausts and the 'Navy style' straight edged inboard pylons as a starting point.

 

To post pictures you need an image hosting site. That will allow you to upload the scans here. For more information and a 'how to' guide see the FAQ sub-forum at the top of the main forum page and specifically this one :

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

[Hook]

On 1/20/2024 at 4:21 PM, XV571 said:

you will need to find some early 'short can' exhausts

Hasegawa's 1/72nd 1990 tool Phantoms are an excellent source of bits for the spares box - all versions come with both short and long cans. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

[Scout712]

The Revell 1/72 (R)F-4 kits have a lot of detail compared to the Hase kits but still, I'd only use them for spare parts to upgrade Hasegawa kits. Why? Because Revell copied its 1/32 scale kit with all its errors. The canopy parts are wayyyy to flat and small, the intake trunks are way to square, the horizontal stabs are to large in regards to the chord line, the nose gear strut is way to skinny, the aft section is too squared resulting in a square chute door and the vertical stab is too thin. On the other hand the panel lines have more detail (some are too pronounced), the inboard pylons have a better shape and provide both Chaff and Flare adapters of the ALE-40 (Hase only has the chaff cartridge adapters), the cockpit is reasonably well detailed (the F has dials which come out nicely with dry brushing, the RF-4E is more simple), the cameras in the RF kits actually look like them and not just like some rods as with Hasegawa and the centerline tank has rivets at the aft section just as the real one had. Even though the nose cap is too blunt. The wing tanks are horrible on the other hand.

 

Best regards

Michael

[Pavel_Russo]

@XV571, Hook, Scout712 - Thank you so very much, gentlemen, for your hints and kind attention. That’s understood and taken into consideration as well.

For my build (I am going to transform 1/72 Revell’s RF-4E into RF-4C as I said) I have prepared a lot of spare and corrected parts such as metal gear struts, vacu-formed “bubble”, so called straight inboard pylons and short nozzles from Hasegawa’s kits, fuel tanks of many kinds, resin air intakes etc.

 

I found an old Travers decals (#72-062), and there is an interesting “board” called “Thumble weed”. As I found out a bit later, it is N65-0905 belonged to 11TRS, 432TRW.

A link: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/travers-72-062-f-4-phantom-ii--105298

 

Also, I found some contradictory info on the very same airframe. Decal manufactured by Cutting Edge: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/cutting-edge-modelworks-ced32004-f-4c-ds-and-rf-4cs--202230

 

That’s all not so bad, but which one should I believe?

Pictures, pictures, pictures… I’ve got to get some real stuff to start the build.

On the Airport Data there is nothing on this airframe N65-0905: https://www.airport-data.com/search/search2.html?field=model&search=Search&code=McDonnell+Douglas+RF-4C+Phantom+II

 

Colleagues, does anyone have some correct info on this airframe, please?

 

In advance, many thanks for possible help.

 

Have the nicest weekend, y’all. 
Peace out -

Pavel.

[Scout712]

Pavel,

over the years I found one or two pics of Tumbleweed. They show the jet only from the left side. Write me a PN with your email address and I'll pass along what I have.

 

B/r

Michael

[Hook]

Ah, Tumbleweed. One of my favourites.

 

Tatty beyond belief ! - closeup of the artwork here and a more general shot here.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre