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Jeepers, Cookie, that's some quick-thinking with the scratchbuilidng!

 

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

That reminds me of the quote about the first time a Spitfire pilot saw a P-47 Thunderbolt. The two were parked next to each other. The RAF pilot said of the Thunderbolt “ You yanks ever get in a dogfight with that beast. You can always unstrap and run around  inside the fuselage to avoid Jerry's bullets” 

 

My favourite response to a P-47 is when the pilot got out, some wag asked "where is the rest of the crew?"

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14 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

 

Thanks Simon, I bought that sheet a while back thinking that it would have any possible Seafire build I could desire, and it has an Implacable 'N' marked Seafire which I do plan on building someday, but I'm also looking for an Indefatigable 'S'. Bedders (Justin) has suggested this Xtradecals sheet of generic BPF markings.

I'm not sure the aircraft numbers are the same size for Implacable and Indefatigable Seafires.  Implacable Seafires carried their numbers "1°XX" on the side of the fuselage around the BPF roundel and carrier letter "N" on the tail which was pretty normal for BPF aircraft.  Indefatigable on the other hand carried both the carrier letter "S" and aircraft number "1XX" on the tail.  

 

Implacable's Seafires (30 NFW) did a deal to get US P40 drop tanks for their Seafires which I think they suspended from a modified bomb crutch, Indefatigable's Seafires used the slipper tank but I'm not sure if it was the 45 or 90 gallon tank.

Edited by Grey Beema

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2 hours ago, Thud4444 said:

I met a Helldiver pilot who never flew the SBD. He said it wasn't that bad of a plane, just not very pilot friendly.  He said it was all the "old men" who constantly complained about the planes shortcomings. 

Quite a few Barracuda pilots said the same thing; those who had flown Swordfish / Albacores often found the transition unpleasant, whereas pilots who went direct to the Barra had no preconceptions (e.g. about trim changes at the bottom of the attck dive...).  That doesn’t mean the Barra had no issues - just that some of its reputation is ill-deserved.

 

Nice to see photos of the “bumper car” deck tractors in use; I have acquired a nice resin number for a future Seafire XVII build.

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Thanks for the link to the Mike Crosley account Cookie - a great read.

Good start on the Corsairs too, including the scratched gun sight - nice!

It'll be great to see you in 2019 - should be a memorable show!

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7 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

(it's no beer can, but call me Giemme Jr!)

:rofl:  :rofl:  Nonetheless, you did a great scratch building job there :clap:  :clap:

 

Ciao

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11 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

That reminds me of the quote about the first time a Spitfire pilot saw a P-47 Thunderbolt. The two were parked next to each other. The RAF pilot said of the Thunderbolt “ You yanks ever get in a dogfight with that beast. You can always unstrap and run around  inside the fuselage to avoid Jerry's bullets” 

 

11 hours ago, Thud4444 said:

Yea, yea, yea y'all Brits go on and on about how big the yank's are until somebody parks their Spit beside a Yak 3.:tease:

 

9 hours ago, Procopius said:

My favourite response to a P-47 is when the pilot got out, some wag asked "where is the rest of the crew?"

Another of my favorite P-47 quotes is from Soviet test pilot Mark Gallai:

"The P-47 Thunderbolt is not a fighter. It is bigger than our standard frontal bomber and has a longer range. It carries more bombs and is more heavily armed." Soviet Lend Lease Fighter Aces, p.81

It was such a beast that it could only be compared to the Pe-2, a twin engine bomber, and it was still considered too big.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Beard said:

That's what I like to see... multiple kits on the go.

It's really the only proper way to model.

 

10 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

I'm not sure the aircraft numbers are the same size for Implacable and Indefatigable Seafires.  Implacable Seafires carried their numbers "1°XX" on the side of the fuselage around the BPF roundel and carrier letter "N" on the tail which was pretty normal for BPF aircraft.  Indefatigable on the other hand carried both the carrier letter "S" and aircraft number "1XX" on the tail.  

 

Implacable's Seafires (24 NFW) did a deal to get US P40 drop tanks for their Seafires which I think they suspended from a modified bomb crutch, Indefatigable's Seafires used the slipper tank but I'm not sure if it was the 45 or 90 gallon tank.

Thanks again for the info Beema, it's amazing how modelling a subject leads to a deeper understanding than just about any other mode of research.  Here is a link to @Bedders ongoing Seafire build, where he used the 'generic' Xtradecals BPF sheet - he gives some interesting info on its usefulness for Seafires.

 

I'm currently reading They Gave Me a Seafire, and just got to the part where he's bartering for the P-40 drop tanks!

 

9 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Quite a few Barracuda pilots said the same thing; those who had flown Swordfish / Albacores often found the transition unpleasant, whereas pilots who went direct to the Barra had no preconceptions (e.g. about trim changes at the bottom of the attck dive...).  That doesn’t mean the Barra had no issues - just that some of its reputation is ill-deserved.

It's interesting that the same phenomenon affected both carrier bombers, they were more capable than their predecessors, but "just weren't the same".

Part of my fascination for the Helldiver comes from the sparseness of widely available accounts of their operational use, when compared to the Dauntless. Coral Sea, Midway and Guadalcanal have been dissected minutely and repeatedly (and rightfully so), but the Helldiver probably contributed to the sinking of a much larger warship tonnage (including Yamato and Musashi). 

 

I have the Special Hobby Barracuda kit - it wasn't used in Iceberg, but I left a little wiggle room in the thread title with the "...and After",  hmmm. Time to check if they were used by the BPF after Iceberg.

 

9 hours ago, CedB said:

Thanks for the link to the Mike Crosley account Cookie - a great read.

Good start on the Corsairs too, including the scratched gun sight - nice!

It'll be great to see you in 2019 - should be a memorable show!

SMW 2019 or bust!

 

4 hours ago, giemme said:

:rofl:  :rofl:  Nonetheless, you did a great scratch building job there :clap:  :clap:

I learned it from watching you!

Sorry, that was a pretty culturally specific video - a 1980's anti-drug ad that ran over and over here in the states.

Anyway, I did learn to use everyday items for modelling from you Giorgio!

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2 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

I have the Special Hobby Barracuda kit - it wasn't used in Iceberg, but I left a little wiggle room in the thread title with the "...and After",  hmmm. Time to check if they were used by the BPF after Iceberg.

Afraid not. They were used operationally over Sumatra during Operation COCKPIT (seventeen aircraft from 812 and 847 NAS on HMS Illustrious), but were replaced for Operation TRANSOM against Surabaya by Avengers from 832 and 845 NAS, owing to the Barracuda's short legs. The Barras were used again in Operation PEDAL against the Andamans. During Operation BANQUET against Padang, HMS Indomitable flew off 19 Barracudas from 815 and 817 NAS, and then also during the abortive Operation LIGHT A/B against northern Sumatra and the Nicobars. During this operation, recurring range issues with the Barracudas meant the Admiralty decided to dispense with them for operations in the Pacific with the Americans, and so Operation MILLET in October of 1944 was the type's last combat service with the Eastern Fleet prior to its passage into the Pacific. David Hobbs's book The British Pacific Fleet is a great reference, though  weakened by the fact that it uses no Japanese sources, archival or otherwise.

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4 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

Anyway, I did learn to use everyday items for modelling from you Giorgio!

That was a pretty weird video! :frantic:

Well, happy if I could be of any help - whenever you get to using yogurt cups, I will declare "mission accomplished" :D:D:D

 

Ciao

 

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2 hours ago, Procopius said:

Afraid not. They were used operationally over Sumatra during Operation COCKPIT (seventeen aircraft from 812 and 847 NAS on HMS Illustrious), but were replaced for Operation TRANSOM against Surabaya by Avengers from 832 and 845 NAS, owing to the Barracuda's short legs. The Barras were used again in Operation PEDAL against the Andamans. During Operation BANQUET against Padang, HMS Indomitable flew off 19 Barracudas from 815 and 817 NAS, and then also during the abortive Operation LIGHT A/B against northern Sumatra and the Nicobars. During this operation, recurring range issues with the Barracudas meant the Admiralty decided to dispense with them for operations in the Pacific with the Americans, and so Operation MILLET in October of 1944 was the type's last combat service with the Eastern Fleet prior to its passage into the Pacific. David Hobbs's book The British Pacific Fleet is a great reference, though  weakened by the fact that it uses no Japanese sources, archival or otherwise.

Thanks PC, I have Hobb's book (likely due to your past recommendation), but it's in storage of course.

It does seem like some Barracudas were aboard the light carriers of the 11th Aircraft Carrier Squadron that were enroute to Japan on VJ-Day, and thus did not officially see operational use during the war. I'll have to decide how loosely I want to interpret the "..and After" in the thread title, but there is plenty to build until then. Speaking of, the Hellcat dual-combo box just arrived.

 

30 minutes ago, giemme said:

That was a pretty weird video! :frantic:

Well, happy if I could be of any help - whenever you get to using yogurt cups, I will declare "mission accomplished" :D:D:D

I'll see if I can work in a yogurt cup before it's all said and done!

 

I got the wings clipped on the Corsair IV.

100_0805

 

Apparently all Corsair IV's had what Dana Bell calls 'short-short' wing tips. I clipped them about halfway through the wing tip navigation light.

 

The Helldiver is to the Corsair as the Corsair is to the Spitfire.

100_0808

 

I forgot that the Tamiya kit gives you a choice regarding the 'turtle deck' behind the cockpit which is too narrow for the fuselage: you can either attach the halves to the fuselage halves before mating them and have to deal with a big seam down the middle, or attach the 'turtle deck' halves together and then fix it to the completed fuselage and have a step all along the 'border' with the fuselage. I chose poorly and did the second option. Lots of putty in my future.

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56 minutes ago, giemme said:

That was a pretty weird video! :frantic:

All US anti-drug education is at best weird, and at worst, totally counterproductive.

 

2 minutes ago, Cookenbacher said:

The Helldiver is to the Corsair as the Corsair is to the Spitfire.

 

Geeze, what a beast! I had no idea it was so big. Always wanted to do a Royal Navy Helldiver I under evaluation, but I understand the kits released currently are for different models.

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This is really very entertaining - I think I'll tag along for the rest of the ride. :popcorn:

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5 hours ago, Procopius said:

 

Geeze, what a beast! I had no idea it was so big. Always wanted to do a Royal Navy Helldiver I under evaluation, but I understand the kits released currently are for different models.

The Matchbox/Revell Helldiver SB2C-1 (?) is the one for this.

Steve.

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Just now, stevehnz said:

The Matchbox/Revell Helldiver SB2C-1 (?) is the one for this.

 

Oh boy.

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20 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Quite a few Barracuda pilots said the same thing; those who had flown Swordfish / Albacores often found the transition unpleasant, whereas pilots who went direct to the Barra had no preconceptions (e.g. about trim changes at the bottom of the attck dive...).  That doesn’t mean the Barra had no issues - just that some of its reputation is ill-deserved.

 

 

It's funny you should mention it, our entire conversation was based on a book I was reading.  It was called Carrier Warfare or something and it was written by a Brit. There was a few paragraphs about how the Albacore's biggest problem was that it wasn't the Swordfish according to the author. My patient said that the US Navy had the same problem with the Helldiver.

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How do you work that quickly?  I'm on strictly glacial pace, even when I get time at the bench I don't build that quickly.

 

Are you going to add the CO vents? They are tiny in the remedial scale they will be just specks in 1/72 but they were a feature of FAA Corsairs..

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Interesting project Cookie, and a gold star for your commitment to the hobby in the midst of a relocation.

 

Really like the paintwork on your Helldiver, and am eyeing your Corsairs with a view to having a go at one myself. The 'easy-rider' location of the cockpit on those looks kinda cool...

 

Justin

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20 hours ago, Cookenbacher said:

The Helldiver is to the Corsair as the Corsair is to the Spitfire.

Boy, she's a big beast! :frantic:

 

Great job on the clipped wings, top surgery there :clap:

Yogurt cup will come in handy when you don't even expect it ... :D:D

 

20 hours ago, Procopius said:

All US anti-drug education is at best weird, and at worst, totally counterproductive.

I can certainly see why ...

 

Ciao

Edited by giemme

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21 hours ago, Procopius said:

Always wanted to do a Royal Navy Helldiver I under evaluation, but I understand the kits released currently are for different models.

 

16 hours ago, stevehnz said:

The Matchbox/Revell Helldiver SB2C-1 (?) is the one for this.

 

I think that I read somewhere while researching this build, that the Cyber-hobby A-25A Shrike boxing also has what you need to make an SB2C-1.

 

21 hours ago, BIG X said:

This is really very entertaining - I think I'll tag along for the rest of the ride. :popcorn:

Glad to have you along Big X, really enjoyed your Spitfire.

 

15 hours ago, Thud4444 said:

It's funny you should mention it, our entire conversation was based on a book I was reading.  It was called Carrier Warfare or something and it was written by a Brit. There was a few paragraphs about how the Albacore's biggest problem was that it wasn't the Swordfish according to the author. My patient said that the US Navy had the same problem with the Helldiver.

I guess it's possible for an aeroplane to have superior performance in important areas, but not be as beloved as its predecessor. I think I remember reading something similar about the Zero when it first entered service as it wasn't as nimble and fun to fly as the A5M.

 

13 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

How do you work that quickly?  I'm on strictly glacial pace, even when I get time at the bench I don't build that quickly.

 

Are you going to add the CO vents? They are tiny in the remedial scale they will be just specks in 1/72 but they were a feature of FAA Corsairs..

I've found that it actually helps me to have multiple builds going at once, I have no idea why, and it may actually take longer than if I did them one at a time, but there's a bit of thrill to it (as much as building 1/72 models can be thrilling).

 

I'm planning to add the CO vents, yes, the underside (exhaust?) one first, and then add the scoops on the sides after decals, as BPF roundels end up right on top of them. I think it will be easier to glue them on top of roundels and add a dab of paint, than to try and get the decals to conform over them.

 

12 hours ago, Bedders said:

The 'easy-rider' location of the cockpit on those looks kinda cool...

One Corsair pilot compared the aft location of the cockpit to riding in a chariot, with 2000 horses way out in front.

 

1 hour ago, giemme said:

Great job on the clipped wings, top surgery there :clap:

Yogurt cup will come in handy when you don't even expect it ... :D:D

Thanks Giorgio, and I'll save a few yogurt cups, just in case.

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Thanks Cookie for that info, I confess that one has flown under my radar. A page here with links to some reviews on it show it to be a mixed bag as we've come to expect from Cyber-Hobby, the IPMS/USA review is fairly thorough & objective I thought. To someone of PC's  modelling prowess, it should be a walk in the park though compared to the Matchbox kit. :)

Steve.

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The Helldiver has lots of stencils. I'm not really a stencil guy (just like I'm not really a cockpit detail guy), but the stencils on the Glossy Sea blue scheme in the reference pics I've been using really add to the overall look of the aircraft.

 

Two decal sessions later, and the left side is done:

100_0810

 

Please forgive the poor photo!

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4 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

Thanks Cookie for that info, I confess that one has flown under my radar. A page here with links to some reviews on it show it to be a mixed bag as we've come to expect from Cyber-Hobby, the IPMS/USA review is fairly thorough & objective I thought. To someone of PC's  modelling prowess, it should be a walk in the park though compared to the Matchbox kit. :)

Steve.

Thanks for the link Steve, I read the IPMS/USA review. Yikes, I briefly considered the Cyber-Hobby SB2C-4 kit for this project, but the Academy was much cheaper and received fairly glowing reviews.  I have to say that it exceeded expectations, and I would definitely build it again. The Cyber-Hobby kit has the advantage folding wings and collapsible rear gunner section. The reviewer had trouble with Cyber-Hobby PE flaps, and I have to say that I gave the Academy PE flaps about five minutes of effort before I realized they are way beyond my metallic origami skills.

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On 11/13/2017 at 4:59 AM, Cookenbacher said:

PC and I have pledged to attend SMW 2019, so I hope you will have earned an hour or two off by then so you can pal around with you American buddies at the show

I should like that very much indeed, thank you Cookie (and PC) :) 

 

Your Helldiver is progressing nicely - the little stencils definitely do add to it - and I guess you could almost assemble a Tamiya Corsair blindfold by now?

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

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