Plasto Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Hi, im going to have a go at another Sherman kit before the Sherman GB kicks off. I have the Squadron M4 in action book and on page 9 is this well known image of a 3rd Armoured Division M4 in Germany in October 1944 The Image in the squadron book is a bit more cropped than this but using the book and Hunnicutt I think it’s a mid production / re-manufactured M4 3 Piece transmission cover with appliqué armour and the M34 gun shield and earlier style road wheels. Given that this kit seems ideally suited to build a replica.. Most of the features on the photo can be found in the boxing I think. Ive made a start on the hull, boxing in the sponsons and correcting the weld beads. I have images but need to run em through Lightroom first. The aim with the build being not to use any after market bits. I’m going to give the sand bag armour a go using epoxy sculpting clay Milliput or similar. wish me luck. Plasto 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaubar Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Enjoy the build. Epoxy sand bags are fun, enjoy. Shermans are always nice to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Good idea to cover the front with sandbags as Tamiya got it wrong with the glacis plate. It's more suited to an M4A4/Sherman V. John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_t Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Good luck Oh, and following I am by no means an expert on any aspects of modelling, let alone Shermans, but I am hoping for your sake that the front fenders on the kit are optional, otherwise it looks like you've got a bit of fettling to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Bullbasket said: Tamiya got it wrong with the glacis plate. It's more suited to an M4A4/Sherman V. What’s incorrect on the kit glacis for an m4 ? Edited November 13, 2017 by Plasto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Interesting to see just how much mud and crud there is built up on top of those suspension units. Carry on like this and you'll soon be churning out Shermans as quick as they did in real life methinks! Rearguards, Badder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) Righto here are some images of my progress. First up I have boxed in the sponsons with some 40 thou plastic card. I also filled in the back of the idler with plastic card. I added the handed bolt holes to the VVSS units and thinned down the plastic on the track return skids for a more scale appearance. I also ran with the Fancy Drive sprockets.. I also added some texture to the final drive housings with some surfacer.. I then have added some stretched sprue to the welds to bring them in line and more prototypical and added some I beam to replicate the mount for the hedgerow cutter. I did this before getting a better image of the tank and seeing the beams were chopped leaving a tongue. I have also added some strip to the hull sides to replicate the mounting strip for the guards. I've also built the basic turret and sorted out the cannon barrel. Detail bits next.. Cheers Plasto Edited November 15, 2017 by Plasto 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) On 13/11/2017 at 19:09, Plasto said: What’s incorrect on the kit glacis for an m4 ? The weld lines running down the centre of the glacis. They shouldn't be there for an M4. Anyone building a Dragon M50 could use the Tamiya M4 glacis as it is correct for an M4A4 and also has the correct shape to the hoods as opposed to the Dragon ones, which are too narrow. Also, I don't know how far that you want to go with detailing, but Tamiya left off the three bolt heads along the bottom of the VVSS units. If you look back at the photo that you posted on the 10th November, you can see them on the front unit. John. Edited November 16, 2017 by Bullbasket I think slowly! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Bullbasket said: The weld lines running down the centre of the glacis. They shouldn't be there for an M4. Hi John, Thanks for that very interesting. The M4 G/A Schematic on page 132 of Hunnicutt shows the weld lines. Is Hunnicutt incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 On 16/11/2017 at 17:55, Plasto said: The M4 G/A Schematic on page 132 of Hunnicutt shows the weld lines. Is Hunnicutt incorrect? If it shows them being in the same place as Tamiya have put them, then yes. I know Hunnicutt is the Sherman bible, but when it comes to drawings, there's always doubt. I've been talking to some people, very knowledgeable when it coms to Shermans, and each one has said that the Tamiya glacis is wrong. Apparently, it should have weld beads, but not where they have depicted them. The hoods are the wrong shape, seen only on Chrysler built M4A4's. Also, the radio pot on the right side is the wrong shape for an M4. Again, seen on M4A4's. I can't find a clear photo of an M4 which shows the glacis clearly so I can't be more specific as to where the weld beads should be. But, saying all that, so what! build it. It's a hobby and should be enjoyed. It's only ancient curmudgeons like me that spend eons correcting every little mistake (and still miss some). John. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Hi John, Thanks for that. It’s good to know that ‘Hunnicutt’ the book that is widely accepted as the definitive resource on the Sherman is incorrect. As you say none of the mistakes apparently present make much difference. To 99.99% of folk it’s a Sherman. Cheers Plasto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 I have been working on the Sandbags for the glacis plate... I used milliput... This is the main ones placed I used a silicone artists sculpting tool to add the creases in and a bit of mesh gauze to add some texture to the bags.. Here it is finished with the final bags added... You can also see I added in the bolts to the VVSS units as per John's suggestion I punched these out of 40 thou plastic card. I don't have a hexagonal punch so some 2.5mm circles will have to do.. I think they will be ok once painted and weathered. Cheers Plasto.. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Nice job on the sand bags Plasto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris B Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Interesting project. Will watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Nice job, the sandbags look the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) Great work on this Plasto .. though i do have to ask. If you're covering up the glacis with sandbags, why put the weld seems there won’t they get covered up ? Edited November 19, 2017 by Corsairfoxfouruncle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the feedback guys, Good point Dennis, When I did the weld beads I was unsure if I wanted to add sand bags or if if use other stowage or if I’d use resin sand bags.. Any how the weld beads are a few minutes work with stretched sprue and extra thin so not much loss time wise.. Cheers John Edited November 20, 2017 by Plasto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaubar Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Great progress, I'm loving it.😂😂😂. I got a quick question though... OIn you last picture with the sandbags, the driver has no vision slit and would be blind... On the photo (your original real m4 one ) the drivers field of view is secured by a Metal in a U shaped manner (wrong way round)... the wrong way round U protects the vision port from being blocked I assume? I am no Sherman expert, it just looks weird, poor driver.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Hi, On the Tamiya kit the driver and co Driver vision block covers are Moulded in the closed position. If they were open then there would be clearance over the sandbags I think for the periscope to work. The driver on the Sherman man relied on observations from the co driver and commander as well as his own limited vision when ‘buttoned up’. On the real tank the driver had a fixed vision block (periscope) and a moveable periscope in the acess hatch. Early Sherman’s had actual slots in the glacis plate these are known as direct vision Sherman’s the slots were removed on later production models of the M4 and M4A1 as they were a weak spot in the armour. HTH Plasto Edited November 20, 2017 by Plasto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaubar Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Cool, thx. That poor chap, opening the thing with some 50kg of sandbags on top... the U thing is somehow missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 I think you are talking about the brush guard for the head lamps. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Noting that the glacis weld bead debate has been dealt with by sandbags on this model, the Sherman Minutia site contains good diagrams of the various glacis construction configurations and their likely production dates and plants. Yes, Tamiya got the front of their M4 wrong for whatever reason. Not wishing to diss Hunnicutt, but that book was never intended to be a definitive reference of every minor production variation. It is, as the subtitle says, a history. Son Of Sherman probably better fills the minutia gap after very many years of research, but is of course vastly expensive and beyond many peoples' reach. There are considerable economies of scale in printing, and one wonders what price it could have been sold for if more risk had been taken on the print run(s). Demand seems to exceed supply, and desire greatly exceeds it. Sell it for half the price, sell twice as many or more = same profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Very nice. And good execution of the sand bags. Whenever you need any hex bolts, get those Meng bolt sets, the large kit starts at 1.3mm with three sizes in 0.2mm increments. You get around 700-800 of such bolt heads for about 5€ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carius Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Nice start Plasto, I will follow with interest Edited November 20, 2017 by Carius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasto Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Hi, I have been progressing with the M4. Turret is built.. I painted the internals I used the kit tracks but shortened them by one link. I need to do the tools then it's off for Paint.. Cheers Plasto 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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