Germany prefers F-35

[Slater]

Think this will actually result in any orders?

 

http://www.janes.com/article/75511/germany-declared-preference-for-f-35-to-replace-tornado

[alex]

well, how long would it need to introduce a fully A/G-capable Typhoon as stop-gap? I would guess the "after-Eurofighter", which is planned to be developed together with France, would then replace all aircraft, the Rafale, the Tornado and the Typhoon in the long term. So I guess the JSF may be a good solution, but blocking the path of the future european fighter. Things may change politically, of course, but I don't see germany buying the JSF.

 

Alex

[Slater]

I would imagine it also depends on how much emphasis Germany puts on stealth capability.

[Doc72]

Given the problems plaguing the A400M it is understandably that the German Air Force this time prefers to buy off-the-shelf and off shore.

There might also be a political-economic background, however: Germany has a growing trade surplus with the US and this is not only annoying the current POTUS. There is a certain pressure on Germany to change this and also Germany itself admits that its trade surpluses are not ideal.

As the US industry is unlikely to produce anything that German consumers will be buying in large numbers in the near future, government spending (=buying weapons in the US) are a proven way to re-balance trade between the two countries.

In the Cold War, there was even a formal treaty in which W-Germany agreed to buy in the US for a sum equivalent to the money the US spent on its forces in Germany. 

A lot of the weapon acquisitions of Germany, Japan, South Korea, and in particularly the Gulf states, I think, can be explained in this way. The US usually have a trade deficit with these states. In a way, it's a form of paying for US military protection.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Doc72

[Selwyn]

8 hours ago, alex said:

well, how long would it need to introduce a fully A/G-capable Typhoon as stop-gap? I would guess the "after-Eurofighter", which is planned to be developed together with France, would then replace all aircraft, the Rafale, the Tornado and the Typhoon in the long term. So I guess the JSF may be a good solution, but blocking the path of the future european fighter. Things may change politically, of course, but I don't see germany buying the JSF.

 

Alex

well, how long would it need to introduce a fully A/G-capable Typhoon as stop-gap?

 

Well about no time at all, as the Typhoon is fully A/G capable! 

Selwyn

Edited November 8, 2017 by Selwyn

[Paul J]

Oh No!  I foresee lots of noisy F-35 at airshows by the dozen like the F-16 we have endured since the 1970s!

[Latinbear]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:06 PM, Paul J said:

Oh No!  I foresee lots of noisy F-35 at airshows by the dozen like the F-16 we have endured since the 1970s!

 

You left out the word "grey". 

 

The airshow scene will be even more dull with yet more F35s. 

[bentwaters81tfw]

'Germany prefers F-35'

 

That's a bit like saying '8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas', or '87% of 284 agree'.

 

Totally meaningless until they have taken delivery, (after cancelling, deferring, or changing the terms/spec.) 

 

Last time they bought Lockheed, that worked out well, didn't it?

[oggy4624]

........but they don't want to pay for it! (no surprise there).

They will also demand unreasonable offsets, which they will not get.

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

'Germany prefers F-35'

 

That's a bit like saying '8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas', or '87% of 284 agree'.

 

Totally meaningless until they have taken delivery, (after cancelling, deferring, or changing the terms/spec.) 

 

Last time they bought Lockheed, that worked out well, didn't it?

 

Yes, it worked out well !

Over 900 aircrafts received

In service for almost 30 years providing a large part of NATO's strike force.

A huge involvement of German companies resulting in the construction of hundreds of Starfighters, creating thousands of jobs and putting Germany back on the aircraft manufacturers map

 

Yes, the type had a bad reputation because of accidents that caused the loss of 30% of all aircrafts received. Without going into the details of the problems, it may be worth mentioning that the F-84F  in the same air force suffered the loss of 36% of all aircrafts received in a much shorter time....

And more on the accidents: attrition rate for the F-104 in German service was around 15 every 100,000 hours. To compare with something from the same era, the Lightning had an attrition rate of 16 every 100,000 hours....

Losses for the German F-104 force were attributed to pilot error for approximately 40% of the accidents, with technical problems accounting for another 40% and other causes for the rest. Not surprising considering the dangers of low level flight.

The same figures for the Lightning are 20% due to pilot error and 65% due to technical problems...

 

 

[upnorth]

4 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

 

 

Last time they bought Lockheed, that worked out well, didn't it?

 

Yes it did. :-)

 

They very much like their P-3 Orions and have entered an agreement to have Lockheed upgrade their fleet and keep it going to 2035:

 

http://news.lockheedmartin.com/2017-11-01-Lockheed-Martin-Awarded-158-5-Million-Upgrade-Contract-for-Germany-P-3C-Orion-Aircraft