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GazB

Strengthening Thin Rod

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Hi all. Need to pick some experts' brains.

 

Today I received some 1mm Evergreen styrene rod so I can make the tarp frame for my M1083 (tried going for 1.2, but I figured it wouldn't make much difference).

 

What I wasn't expecting was for the rods to be so...floppy. they bend very easily, to the point that I probably wouldn't be able to add a canvas to them even with very thin green stuff. They hold the rough frame shape, but still suffer from flex and a bit of warping.

 

Does anyone know if there's anything I could apply to them to reinforce the rods. Perhaps coat them with watered down PVA or something similar so as not to make them overly thick, but which would harden?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Gaz

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Forget the plastic rod. 1mm plastic rod will always be very flexible; to strengthen it you'll need to take its thickness way up.

Go get some Florists wire. Its cheap; a local florist may just give you a couple of lengths

Its 1mm diameter iron wire. Very usefull in modellin. Its easily bent to shape and of course it holds that shape well

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I tried florists wire in the past, for wheel struts etc., mainly as it was cheap; however, I found that it pitted and rusted over time so now I use brass rod.  These can usually be found at model railway shops, or on-line.

 

Mike

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11 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Forget the plastic rod. 1mm plastic rod will always be very flexible; to strengthen it you'll need to take its thickness way up.

Go get some Florists wire. Its cheap; a local florist may just give you a couple of lengths

Its 1mm diameter iron wire. Very usefull in modellin. Its easily bent to shape and of course it holds that shape well

I do have some florists wire, probably a little over 1mm. The problem I had with it was having to strip all the papery stuff off it, which off put a slight bend in the rod that I couldn't straighten out again. And while I could bend it fairly easy with my pliers, it was hard to get the lengths of the various bits correct.

6 hours ago, bootneck said:

I tried florists wire in the past, for wheel struts etc., mainly as it was cheap; however, I found that it pitted and rusted over time so now I use brass rod.  These can usually be found at model railway shops, or on-line.

 

Mike

Hmm. I hadn't thought about brass.

5 hours ago, Nick Belbin said:

Agree with Mike - brass every time.

 

Nick

Thanks for the input Knight, Mike, Nick :)

Gaz

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mmm, the florists wire I got locally appears to be different to you'se lots.  :hmmm:

Mine was not covered in paper, but it has a heavy coating of zinc on it. I've not yet had problem with it corroding on a model

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As Mike sez..........1mm rod, soon paints white...............

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1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

mmm, the florists wire I got locally appears to be different to you'se lots.  :hmmm:

Mine was not covered in paper, but it has a heavy coating of zinc on it. I've not yet had problem with it corroding on a model

Hmm, odd.

 

I've had a look for any 1mm floral wire, but it all appears to be green-coated or the gauge is wrong.

 

Gaz

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1 hour ago, rayprit said:

As Mike sez..........1mm rod, soon paints white...............

 

:)

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10 hours ago, bootneck said:

I tried florists wire in the past, for wheel struts etc., mainly as it was cheap; however, I found that it pitted and rusted over time so now I use brass rod.  These can usually be found at model railway shops, or on-line.

 

Mike

 

I've found that using a varnish or even Klear over any wire susceptible to oxidation completely prevents this. I have a couple of builds from over ten years ago where I've used rustable wires but treated in this manner and still no signs of any oxidation.

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9 minutes ago, Smithy said:

 

I've found that using a varnish or even Klear over any wire susceptible to oxidation completely prevents this. I have a couple of builds from over ten years ago where I've used rustable wires but treated in this manner and still no signs of any oxidation.

I imagine paint and the usual approach of sealing and so forth would protect it as well :)

 

Gaz

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22 hours ago, GazB said:

I imagine paint and the usual approach of sealing and so forth would protect it as well :)

 

Gaz

 

Any coating that will keep out oxygen and moisture will do the trick!

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I'd go with brass rods, are easy to cut, are generally sold as traight rods with no need to straighten something like a roll of wire and are easily available in many hobby shops.

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to straighten metal coiled wire:

snip off a length

put one end in a vise

hold other end tightly in a pair of pliers

pull the pliers agressively away from vise sharply

 

wire might break, but will be straight

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5 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

I'd go with brass rods, are easy to cut, are generally sold as traight rods with no need to straighten something like a roll of wire and are easily available in many hobby shops.

What's the best way to cut it? I got the 1.2mm brass rod today but I'm having some trouble cutting through. My mini razor saw won't seem to bit, scalpel blade isn't doing much, and my sprue cutters aren't having much effect either.

 

4 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

to straighten metal coiled wire:

snip off a length

put one end in a vise

hold other end tightly in a pair of pliers

pull the pliers agressively away from vise sharply

 

wire might break, but will be straight

Cool, thanks :)

 

Gaz

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1 hour ago, GazB said:

What's the best way to cut it? I got the 1.2mm brass rod today but I'm having some trouble cutting through. My mini razor saw won't seem to bit, scalpel blade isn't doing much, and my sprue cutters aren't having much effect either.

 

Cool, thanks :)

 

Gaz

 

A small metal saw will do the job, alternatively small snips like the ones used by electronics hobbyists. I usually cut a trifle longer and then reduce the extra length with a file

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Sprue cutters and mini razor saws generally used for cutting just that,................plastic and sprue cutting only, try cut brass with these tools and you will dull  and ruin them.   Ideally use a junior hack saw...............I use a cutting disc on an electric drill, or, when I cannot be bothered, measure twice, cut once...............use a modellers triangle file, measure and mark the required cut, then use 2 x edges of the triangle file and file a deep notch on the required mark, you can then SNAP off the required length

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5 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

A small metal saw will do the job, alternatively small snips like the ones used by electronics hobbyists. I usually cut a trifle longer and then reduce the extra length with a file

 

2 hours ago, rayprit said:

Sprue cutters and mini razor saws generally used for cutting just that,................plastic and sprue cutting only, try cut brass with these tools and you will dull  and ruin them.   Ideally use a junior hack saw...............I use a cutting disc on an electric drill, or, when I cannot be bothered, measure twice, cut once...............use a modellers triangle file, measure and mark the required cut, then use 2 x edges of the triangle file and file a deep notch on the required mark, you can then SNAP off the required length

Thanks, guys. 

 

What would you recommend to glue the parts together? They seem too heavy for CA glue to support long enough, and I don't have any soldering equipment.

 

Thanks,

 

Gaz

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without soldering equipment, I personally, if making a tarp/canopy would do what most manufacturers of the frame do or did?

Where the frame/transverse hoops meets the crossmember/longitudinals they made a flat spot, on BOTH mating faces, they then drill a hole and pass a countersunk screw and nut through(with washers).  Modelling a tilt/canopy, where the hoops and longitudinals meet, do the same as the manufacurers, file a flat on both faces BUT bond with superglue..............hopefully bond will hold as the bond is secured by 2 flat faces.

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2k glue might help. Another trick is to place and hold the pieces in position with blue tack and only then apply the glue. Without the pieces moving it usually works.

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2 component epoxy glue is much better than CA, especially in the long term. I'd follow Rayprit advice here, file the contact points at 45 degree and apply glue there.

Another option is to use Albion Alloys tubes instead of rods, together with their Connecto range of parts... these allow to connect two tubes together in different configurations and can be bent to the desired angle. Using tubes in general also allows junctions to be made more robust simply by inserting a smaller diameter pin bent to the desired angle, in this case some superglue inside the tube will keep the pin in place and guarantee a good joint. The only downside of using tubes is that they are generally more expensive than rods. I mention Albion Alloys here simply because they have a wide range and they are easily available in the UK (and I use this brand quite often) but there are other manufacturers around

Edited by Giorgio N

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On 11/13/2017 at 10:54 AM, Giorgio N said:

2 component epoxy glue is much better than CA, especially in the long term. I'd follow Rayprit advice here, file the contact points at 45 degree and apply glue there.

Another option is to use Albion Alloys tubes instead of rods, together with their Connecto range of parts... these allow to connect two tubes together in different configurations and can be bent to the desired angle. Using tubes in general also allows junctions to be made more robust simply by inserting a smaller diameter pin bent to the desired angle, in this case some superglue inside the tube will keep the pin in place and guarantee a good joint. The only downside of using tubes is that they are generally more expensive than rods. I mention Albion Alloys here simply because they have a wide range and they are easily available in the UK (and I use this brand quite often) but there are other manufacturers around

 

In the end I've settled on the original frame I made from the evergreen rod, but I've reinforced it with some additional panels. Its still a bit wobbly, but more stable, and will hopefully be fine once the struts are glued into position. Hopefully. I'd hate to find out when they're positioned that one is longer than the rest and its off-kilter. Been scratchbuilding the hell out of this kit lol :P

 

xpS9CjG.jpg

 

Thanks again for your recommendations, though :)

 

Gaz

 

Edited by GazB

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