P40C Tomahawk

[kashiide]

Good day gentlemen.

i am currently 3D modeling Tomahawk Cockpit for Il 2 Clod future add on in north Africa.

 

i got lots of cockpit photos,but almost nothing of the sliding canopy interior.the most important is that there is a hinged window on port side,and I don't have any reference of the opening mechanism.

 

if someone here have some reference,could you please share?

 

[jimmaas]

You may have already seen it but this 360 degree panorama (while a bit dizzying) shows the forward interior of the sliding canopy.  I do not know of any hinged window on the port side - do you mean something like the 'clear vision port' as seen on the Spitfire and Buffalo?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

I think there was a small hinged window section on the P-51A and A-36 in the port forward area of the windscreen. But P-40C’s not to my knowledge. 

[72modeler]

52 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I think there was a small hinged window section on the P-51A and A-36 in the port forward area of the windscreen. But P-40C’s not to my knowledge. 

I agree- I don't remember seeing any Tomahawk/P-40B/C photos that show a clear vision panel in either the windscreen or the sliding hood. There was a hinged clear vision panel on the LH side of the windscreen on late P-40E's, M's, and K's. I have attached a link to a photo that shows the panel as fitted to a P-40E. I believe it opened to the inside, not outside of the windscreen. IIRC, no P-40 variant had a clear vision panel on the sliding hood.

Mike

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=P-40B+windscreen&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=KuiYmSqLiEkRsM%3A%2CPOe17K6QT25p9M%2C_&usg=__mDQUobSXbUAuyCPcR6rjZz2XDug%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIkOTcqYDXAhWHgFQKHdZRBskQ9QEILDAC#imgrc=RF0so79S_NQqeM:&spf=1508541180975

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

I guess thats it then. 👍 

[kashiide]

There is a window on the port side of the sliding hood,and it s on all the hood length.

100% sure.and the hinge is visible from the outside,it s an horizontal hinge also on all the length of the hood

i saw the P40 B panorama,and you can see that on port side,the middle horizontal frame is in 2 parts,while the starboard is one frame.sadly the canopy is opened and we can't see the windows opening system

 

pics soon

[BS_w]

The left side panel is hinged on cockpit sliding encolure (from H75/P36 up to P40N-1)

 

below from "operation and flight instructions, models P40B & P40C

 

below detail H75 canopy

 

Ecris moi sur hotmail, je te passerais les dessins technique si je remets la main dessus

Waroff

Edited October 21, 2017 by BS_w

[72modeler]

Kashiide and BS_W; I believe what you both have described and what is in the diagram and text  attached is not a clear vision panel, but is a 'breakaway' panel or emergency release that allows the entire plexiglass side panel of the sliding hood to be removed for emergency exit; if that is indeed a piano hinge at the top of the hood panel, it would only permit the clear section to be opened outward from the bottom in case the aircraft ended up inverted to allow a trapped  pilot to exit the cockpit, but not in flight so would be useless to allow clear vision in the case of a fogged windscreen.  The text describes this section as an emergency exit, not a clear  vision panel. In looking at the detail photos of the Museum of Naval Aviation's P-40C, there is no hinged clear vision panel in the windscreen, nor have I ever seen evidence of one for any version of the H-75 or H-81 until the P-40E and subsequent versions. The only clear vision panel on the sliding hood section of a WW2 fighter I can remember is the one used on the Spitfire, but even this was eliminated, I believe, during Mk V production. I might be wrong, and many times I am, I admit, but would love to see proof of such an installation on an early P-40 windscreen so I could add it to a model. See the attached photo for the emergency release section on a Tomahawk sliding hood like the one described and illustrated in your excellent post.

Mike

 

https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/p-40/images/dsj_p-40b_08.jpg

 

 

[gingerbob]

On 10/20/2017 at 12:42 PM, kashiide said:

...the most important is that there is a hinged window on port side,and I don't have any reference of the opening mechanism.

 

The OP didn't say anything about a clear-vision panel, it was some respondents who made that association.

[brewerjerry]

Hi

   might be something on here ?

http://www.p40warhawk.com/index.htm

cheers

   jerry

[BS_w]

left: hinge on H75/H81/YP37, right : hinge on H87

 

detail from "H81A Service & Maintenance book":

 

[72modeler]

4 hours ago, gingerbob said:

 

The OP didn't say anything about a clear-vision panel, it was some respondents who made that association.

It was the 'hinged window' reference that confused me, as I couldn't recall a window on a P-40's canopy and thought, wrongly it appears, that he might have been talking about a clear vision panel, which is located on the LH side of the windscreen on some variants. I am sorry for the misinformation. The  hinged panel on the sliding section of the hood is indeed fitted to the P-40E through P-40N-1, as pointed out by BS_w, being eliminated with the P-50N-5 and subsequent. Thanks, GB.

Mike

[gingerbob]

I only became aware of it maybe a year ago, thanks to one of the modeling forums- but when someone pointed it out, my long-term memory went to some clear part with what I suddenly perceived as a piano hinge (maybe the OLD Revell 1/48 kit?), and the little lightbulb in my brain flashed on!  [what, no emoticon of "the light came on"?]

[72modeler]

5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

I only became aware of it maybe a year ago, thanks to one of the modeling forums- but when someone pointed it out, my long-term memory went to some clear part with what I suddenly perceived as a piano hinge (maybe the OLD Revell 1/48 kit?), and the little lightbulb in my brain flashed on!  [what, no emoticon of "the light came on"?]

Get Mike to work on that emoticon! I know what you mean- I am currently going through all of my reference books to find a photo I vaguely remember that showed the inner stores pylon on the F-86F-30 fighter-bomber, which is seldom, if ever, photographed. For the life of me, I can't remember in which of my references I saw it, but I'm going to go through every blasted book in my reference library until I find it! (Is this a great hobby, or what?) Soooo, I will be offline for a while!

Mike

[Garry c]

For a very nice photo of the canopy escape door, try Aircraft Pictorial #5  P-40 Warhawk  by Dana Bell, page 34, titled:  FAILURE OF CANOPY ON P-40 AIRPLANE.

 

Slightly off topic, I was wondering something. 

The cockpit floor is the top surface of the wing

On the export model, the famous LIFE photos show the center of the wing(the cockpit floor) painted interior colour while the rest of the wing is bare metal, before the aircraft was assembled..

The US Army P-40 B was painted before assembly.

My question, was the floor of the cockpit the same colour as the rest of the wing, or was it masked off and painted Yellow Green?

Is there a photo of the wing before assembly that can answer this question?

 

 

Garry c

Edited October 22, 2017 by Garry c
remembered a question.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Garry ... someone recently posted several dozen color photos taken on the Curtiss assembly line sometime in 1940-41. For the life of me i cant remember who posted them. But if they read this they might Repost or post a link to them. 

[BS_w]

There are photos of wing in NMF finish and camouflaged finish(AAF & RAF) which show the wing before their assembly. The  wing area floor was NMF on these three cases but these photos were taken specially for illustration of manual.
Two another pics show, the first: painted floor, lighter than camo colour and 2nd: NMF with one coat of Lionoil Prussian Blue as upper wing.

Not easy to make a rule.
In every case, the wearing plates remain nmf

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by BS_w

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Garry ... someone recently posted several dozen color photos taken on the Curtiss assembly line sometime in 1940-41. For the life of me i cant remember who posted them. But if they read this they might Repost or post a link to them. 

That might have been my post- is this the one you were thinking of?

Mike

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35963591@N00/sets/72157622864527612/

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Yep it was you ... I thought it might’ve been but wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for reposting the link 👍 

[Garry c]

This is the only photo I have found of the painted uninstalled wing. It appears to have some sort of cloth draped over the center section. It looks like the center section is Dark Olive Drab, not Yellow Green

 

 

I take it all back, after blowing up this photo it appears there is no cloth over the center section which is most likely Yellow Green.

 

Thanks for your kind indulgence,

 

Garry c

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Garry c
personal stupidity

[gingerbob]

12 hours ago, Garry c said:

The US Army P-40 B was painted before assembly.

My question, was the floor of the cockpit the same colour as the rest of the wing, or was it masked off and painted Yellow Green?

 

That was a really good question!

[Romel]

7 hours ago, Garry c said:

This is the only photo I have found of the painted uninstalled wing. It appears to have some sort of cloth draped over the center section. It looks like the center section is Dark Olive Drab, not Yellow Green

 

 

I take it all back, after blowing up this photo it appears there is no cloth over the center section which is most likely Yellow Green.

 

Thanks for your kind indulgence,

 

Garry c

 

 

Excellent picture

[BS_w]

some pics of P40 B&C and H81A(RAF)

 

[Garry c]

Thank You BS_w, that is exactly what I was wondering about, I was aware of the wearing plates in nmf, but with cockpit shadows it is impossible to tell if the floor is a darker shade.

 

You are a gentleman and a scholar, 

 

Garry c

[kashiide]

Thank you for helping gentlemen.

what should be the paint color for a early 1941 DAF Tomahawk?