RidgeRunner Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Hi all, Is there an India expert out there who can confirm the colours on this machine? I suspect the colours have been distorted by the publishers of the original document and then the scanner that produced the JPEG. Any ideas? (credit: Bharat Rakshak) Thanks. All help appreciated as always! Martin Edited October 18, 2017 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris57 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Looking at my MasterCraft HAL Vikram they give colours as Sandy Brown/Dark Earth/Intermediate Blue which equates as Hobby Colour H66, H72 & H56. hth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Thanks Chris but, forgive me, what is that reference? I see green patches in this image - ahead and behind the cockpit for example. Do my eyes deceive me? Edited October 18, 2017 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I suspect the colours in that photo are way out of where they should be, bearing in mind the roundels should be orange outers with green inners, not red & black. I tries to fiddle the roundels right but being that it is a digitilised version of a print, there was a limit to what I could do with it. Maybe try online photos of similar IAF Mig-21s to get a better representation. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I think it varies, the original image is off, note the green of the markings is almost black, and the tail di-electric panel is a funny colour compare this looks field applied, note the patch behind the sera there is a slide show of pics here have a google, I suspect that the definite answer is not out there, you could email the Indian Airforce and ask? (or Bharat Rakshak site) HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Thanks chaps. They used varied colours and often only localky designed and applied. I may have to use some "modeller's licence" Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris57 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 That particular airframe is the one used on the box art I referenced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubrawarriors Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 U2163 is a Type 69 (UM) direct supply aircraft from USSR to India. Some of these were in temperate USSR scheme of earth, green, brown camo with light blue undersides. Later India got a lot of second hand trainers from ex CIS states and these were in many different guises, Another variation was light brown, dark brown, green and light blue. The BIS (C2776) is in the jungle scheme consisting of light grey undersides with a top surface of tan and dark green. Regards Phil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Thanks Phil. Excellent data as always. all the best, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 So one last question on the subject: what colour was the cockpit? I suspect it was dark grey. Can anyone confirm that? thanks. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 8 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: So one last question on the subject: what colour was the cockpit? I suspect it was dark grey. Can anyone confirm that? thanks. As built the Type 69 would be in that lovely Soviet turquoise. After delivery / local overhaul... who knows. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thanks Andre. All the photos I can find of them operational in India appear to be grey but I'm open to correction. I'm not embarking on the build just yet so and more input would be gratefully received. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 20-10-2017 at 9:45 AM, RidgeRunner said: Thanks Andre. All the photos I can find of them operational in India appear to be grey but I'm open to correction. I'm not embarking on the build just yet so and more input would be gratefully received. Glad to be of service. This is a museum bird, but still: http://mig-21forever.blogspot.nl/2011/04/mig-21um-sydney-australia.html HTH, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Check this, Ed's Indian MiG-21 instruction sheet in pdf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Hello Martin! We had six MiG-21BIS aircraft at our squadron (Finnish Air Force) and they all carried the original Soviet paint. Yet the colours looked very different between individual aircraft. For example the dark brown looked almost black on another example and the second looked like chocolate brown. And all variations between these two. If the Indian MiGs carried original paintwork then I suggest that you follow the photos for "Observed Colour" (rather than "Specification Colour") and use as much artistic freedom as you like. Keep in my mind what Steve mentioned about prints. I made some colour comparisons in June using our MiG (MBT, MG-140). The cockpit colour is NCS (Natural Colour System) S4050-B70G which is the same colour as RAL 6026 Opalgrun but 10% lighter in shade. In areas where the Sun has affected the paint I found S3060-B70G and S2555-B80G. These don't have matches in the RAL system. S3060-B70G is pretty close to FS 595a 35275; the US shade is a little bit too light and blueish. The green paint used for radome, wheel hubs and di-electrical panels is S5040-G30Y which is close to RAL 6002 Laubgrun (and actually spot on RLM 83 in Hitchcock's Monogram Painting guide for Luftwaffe aircraft). Closest FS equivalent is 14090 for the nearly new left main wheel. S5040-G20Y was found on the lower fin. Landing gear bays are gray S3502-B which is a very close match to FS 36375. The inner surfaces of the landing gear doors are S2005-B50G. Closest match is FS 36473 which is however a little bit too green. I hope this helps You, not confuse... Best Regards, Antti 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basuroy Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) On 10/20/2017 at 1:15 PM, RidgeRunner said: Thanks Andre. All the photos I can find of them operational in India appear to be grey but I'm open to correction. I'm not embarking on the build just yet so and more input would be gratefully received. Martin Hello , I am from India and while I am not expert on accurate colours , I have interacted with enough experts and seen countless images to form the impression there is no exact and uniform scheme for the old camo colours . As such , you can exercise your license to choose a colour that you find appropriate because there doesn't exists any national level template like say luftwaffe RLM to match the paints. Different squadrons painted their airplanes as they wished and then there was weathering and the associated fading of paint . However if you insist on accurate colours , then perhaps you can try finding what is held good for camouflaged soviet fighters ( the ones flown by soviet bloc nations ) and simply paint the Indian airplane the same colour ( do keep in mind barring the first few , majority of these fighters were locally assembled and painted ). Fellow britmodeller member , Arkady72 makes excellent soviet fighter models and I generally save his photos as reference for my own Indian soviet fighter collection . The grey scheme was introduced in 21st century - the grey is known as Tipnis Grey . The only airplane that is not painted this extremely boring shade of grey are the Mirage-2000 which still carry their two tone blue camo. All mig 21 , 23 , 27 were repainted grey when the colour became standard across the air force . Cockpit colour will be that trademark blue green shade for mig-21 . Only mig-21f-13 had grey( or black ? ) cockpit . Just go with the blue green Edited October 22, 2017 by Basuroy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basuroy Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Bookmark this page for future reference ; it has many images of all the types flown by our air force. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/Aircraft/ Mig-21 FL (retired and hence found in the historical section of above link ) -http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/Aircraft/Vintage/Fighters/MiG21FL/ mig-21bishttp://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/Aircraft/Current/Fighters/MiG21Bis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris57 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I must be doing something wrong as I can't access these websites. I did try these sites previously without any success. Help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 Thank you Antti, Antoine, Basuroy and Hook. Very helpful. The B-S site holds some well viewed images but still a great reference. I take comfort in Nubra Warriors' great knowledge of the subject at first hand too. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 On 21/10/2017 at 10:30 AM, Hook said: Glad to be of service. This is a museum bird, but still: http://mig-21forever.blogspot.nl/2011/04/mig-21um-sydney-australia.html HTH, Andre Careful with this aircraft, as while it wears Indian colours it actually never served in India ! It was purchased in Poland in 1991 and repainted in Indian markings by the Australian owner, flew on the airshow circuit and then ended in the museum. It was not exchanged from India as that webpage states. I've visited the Williamworn Museum (highly recommended, the collection is great and the people working there very helpful and friendly) and took several pictures, if anyone is interested let me know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Exactly right, Giorgio. It is the same as the one in Germany in the same marks - also a phoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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