johnd Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I read earlier that all Seafires had metal elevators*. Is this the case? It came as a bit of a surprise but if it is true at least it's not too late to correct my Sword Mk.II and Mk.III. Please advise... Thanks, John. *I do mean elevators rather than ailerons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junchan Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 The metal elevators were introduced from the Westland built late production XV. All the subsequent marks of the Seafires had metal elevators, but the Merlin powered early Seafires had fabric covered elevators. Source: SPITFIRE THE HISTORY by Eric B. Morgan and Edward Shacklady Jun in Tokyo https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) An interesting question as I put together my Mark III, and having now removed all trace of fabric from its 1/72 elevators (gulp). Sadly Edgar is no longer with us, but this was his view back in 2008. Now I start to worry(!), photos of this (restored, admittedly) Mark III would seem to support Edgar. One can just see a bit of a difference between the smooth elevators and the ribbed rudder. Justin Edited October 18, 2017 by Bedders 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 It's the Edgar quote above that raised alarm bells. I'd previously thought that metal elevators had started to appear about the same time as the Mk.21, which would fit with the Morgan and Shacklady information, but then again, Seafires never seem to stick to 'the rules'. Great photo, btw, but shouldn't those walkway lines be asymmetrical? Or is that another idiosyncrasy of Seafires? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Another Edgar answer. Cheers Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junchan Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 This is a metal covered elevator of the XV. And here is an elevator of the restored III which looks like fabric covered. Jun in Tokyo https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 18/10/2017 at 4:28 PM, Bedders said: I have nothing new to add; I just think this is a stunning photograph! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 A little bit more information: Plate 60 in David Brown's "The Seafire" shows an 807 Squadron LIIC vertically on the deck of HMS Hunter and the ribbing on the fabric covered elevators is plain to see. Other than that, the book is quiet on the subject. In Morgan and Shacklady's "Spitfire: The History", there's a description of MB307 (IIC) having its fabric rudder and ailerons set alight during RATOG tests. The problem was cured by switching to flashless powder but as a temporary measure, the elevator surface was covered in metal in place of fabric. On the other hand, there's a test report from Supermarine flight logs regarding PR241 (IIIC): "(Quill 29-12-44). Westland metal elevator." and PX921(LF.III) "(Quill 5-4-45)...Metal elevator by Cunliffe Owen." So not clear cut. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: I have nothing new to add; I just think this is a stunning photograph! I agree. But what I've just noticed on the restoration is that the camouflage pattern has the colours reversed. The EDSG is where the Dark Slate Grey should be, and vice versa. Compare it to this: And this: Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) On 10/24/2017 at 10:07 AM, johnd said: On the other hand, there's a test report from Supermarine flight logs regarding PR241 (IIIC): "(Quill 29-12-44). Westland metal elevator." and PX921(LF.III) "(Quill 5-4-45)...Metal elevator by Cunliffe Owen." Finally had time to go looking. Seafire Mod 357 ("As Spitfire Mod 1338") "To introduce metal covered elevators (A) Interim Scheme. Applies to I, II, III, XV. First discussed 16/5/44, again 11/12/44, and leaflet issued 18/12 [Note: these dates are somewhat fuzzy, but in this case I can read them pretty clearly.] Mod 548 (Spit 1598) To introduce a metal covered elevator applied to the Seafire 45. It was first talked about 6/3/45, with leaflet 25/10/45 (?) and "cleared" 15/1/47. There may be other relevant mods, but those are the ones that came to the surface. bob Edited October 26, 2017 by gingerbob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Note also that Seafires (with perhaps some EARLY exceptions) had the later style, extended horn elevator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 Cheers, Bob. Do we know why the mods were introduced? Preparation for RATOG and/or RPs springs to mind but then wouldn't they include the rudder too? John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Probably for handling considerations, as well as what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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