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Lancaster horizontal tail elevators


Simon

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Hello everyone

 

Just looking at some walkaround photos of Lancasters, and noticed that the elevators on the tailplanes seem to have an angled section at the outer end, where the corner has been removed:

 

8685606534_766f0c3c25_o.jpg

(image from Flickr, via this thread)

 

Having wrestled the Airfix Lancaster II into submission, I see that the kit's elevators have squared off ends:

lancaster-tailplane

 

The Revell Lancaster has the 'chamfered' edge - here's my Revell Dambuster Lanc:

 

revell-lanc-tail

 

So, are there two versions of tailpane elevator?

 

Simon

 

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Simon,

 

The elevators on all Lancaster variants, IIRC, have angled ends to allow for full rudder deflection without interference. See the  link to a pretty good kit comparison for details. An easy fix, all things considered!

Mike

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/reviews/kits/airfixa09007reviewmd_1.htm

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Something else that Airfix "missed" is that most Lancasters had fabric-covered elevators, not metal skinned (look at the elevator on the 101 Squadron aeroplane in the photo above).  This was a contributory factor in the only(?) production test-flying accident involving the type.  During the high speed dive part of the flight the fuel dump pipe doors under the wing centre section tore off and struck the elevators, tearing the fabric.  The airstream then unravelled the weave of the fabric, reducing elevator effectiveness to the point where recovery from the dive became impossible.  The crew of four died in the ensuing crash.  As a temporary "fix" two additional ribs were inserted between each of the standard alloy ribs: the fabric was laced to these in an effort to restrict any future tears to a smaller area of fabric, thereby hopefully obviating a repeat of this accident.  I've an idea that metal-skinned elevators came in with the Lincoln and were retro-fitted to Lancasters remaining in service as and when the opportunity arose.

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Thanks for the link Jari - that's a very useful document indeed. I particularly liked the diagrams showing how to lift a crashed aircraft on pages 123 to 126 - that would make a great diorama.

 

Regards


Simon

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On 15/10/2017 at 8:21 PM, Finn said:

Here is a manual on the Lancaster:

 

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/aircraft/uk/avro/lancaster/a-p-2062a-and-c-the-lancaster-manual.html

 

scroll down to pg 153 to see the tail plane.

 

Jari

Please have a shufti at page 381 which contains a technical description of the elevators: there is an annotated drawing a couple of pages further on.  The fact that no mention is made of alloy-skinned elevators suggests that the scanned document is of wartime origin and has not been updated to reflect later modification states or build standards.

 

Although not credited in my original post my reference is, I hope, impeccable: a chapter in "Lancaster at War 2" written by Sandy Jack who was "there at the time".

 

I certainly don't dispute that KB899, NX611 and PA474 presently sport alloy-skinned elevators, but the one useable (relating to this discussion) photo of R5868 that I've found on the 'net strongly suggests that she still has fabric-covered elevators.  This aeroplane was overhauled between service with 83 and 467 Squadrons, so mid-war, and despite having the rear fuselage windows either plated or painted over, or the entire rear fuselage replaced (apparently entirely possible) she retained her original type of elevator covering.  As she flew little, if at all, post-war I suspect that it was not considered worth updating her when in-service aeroplanes would derive more benefit from the modification.

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On 15/10/2017 at 7:59 PM, stever219 said:

Something else that Airfix "missed" is that most Lancasters had fabric-covered elevators,

Not just Airfix, if that picture of the Revell kit is anything to go by.

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Thanks Laurent.  '664 was a mid-late production aeroplane and was refurbished post-WWII for service with l'Aeronavale in the Far East so could have been built with fabric-skinned elevators which were replaced with metal-skinned examples during her overhaul.  Did she come to you with all of her paperwork (flying & maintenance records?  If so they might show her build standard and any modifications made during her service life.

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But the diagram on page 153 shows that the elevators are square edged what every they might have been covered with. Presume the manual was produced at the early onset of actual aircraft production. 

I suspect that the Mod. to give the elevator a 'tapered' edge came after the initial production of the aircraft so do we know when the Mod to change from square to taper came into being ???

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On 2017/10/16 at 4:21 AM, Finn said:

Here is a manual on the Lancaster:

 

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/aircraft/uk/avro/lancaster/a-p-2062a-and-c-the-lancaster-manual.html

 

scroll down to pg 153 to see the tail plane.

 

Jari

Go to page 388 and you will find an elevator construction diagram which shows a chamfered corner at the outer trailing edge.

 

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

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As noted near the start of the manual it was scanned from a 1943 publication and at the top of most pages it gives when the page was amended, the one on pg 153 has Oct 1943 while pg 388 has Nov 1943. Plus when mods come in it takes time for them to be implemented, unless they are essential. The best bet is to look at photos :

 

Avro%20683%20Lancaster%20I%20(R5689)%20A

 

Jari

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On 18/10/2017 at 11:33, stever219 said:

Thanks Laurent.  '664 was a mid-late production aeroplane and was refurbished post-WWII for service with l'Aeronavale in the Far East so could have been built with fabric-skinned elevators which were replaced with metal-skinned examples during her overhaul.  Did she come to you with all of her paperwork (flying & maintenance records?  If so they might show her build standard and any modifications made during her service life.

Unfortunately, all the paperwork concerning our plane's career has yet to be found in the french navy archives, and has probably been lost or destroyed. My friend conducting the researches managed to recreate most of her career using logbooks from former french aircrews. However, he has found paperwork from a few other french Lancs, but a lot is missing, sadly.

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