Avro Anson II Conversion

[Space Ranger]

Can anyone supply details of what it takes to convert an Anson Mk. I to a Canadian-built Mk. II? I'd like to build one of these (AT-20):

 

 

[RJP]

A couple of things.  The Mark II was powered by Jacobs radials in smooth cowlings and it featured hydraulic retraction for the undercarriage.The side windows were often blanked off too.

I am away from my files but think I may have more.  I will check when I get home.

 

Are you thinking of doing the one shown?  I am curious if it was still in its RCAF yellow.

Edited October 11, 2017 by RJP
Predictive spelling is now “off”

[Space Ranger]

39 minutes ago, RJP said:

A couple of things.  The Mark II was powered by Jacobs radials in smooth cowlings and it featured hydraulic retraction for the undercarriage.The side windows were often blanked off too.

I am away from my files but think I may have more.  I will check when I get home.

 

Are you thinking of doing the one shown?  I am curious if it was still in its RCAF yellow.

Thanks. I am considering that one. I think it's overall silver with red cowlings and yellow cowling numerals. Here's another photo:

 

[Ed Russell]

According to my index there was an Anson MkII article in SAM #7/1994. If nobody else does, I'll have a look for you next week.

[Space Ranger]

1 hour ago, Ed Russell said:

According to my index there was an Anson MkII article in SAM #7/1994. If nobody else does, I'll have a look for you next week.

Much appreciated.

[Mike Starmer]

If you are considering using the Airfix Anson to build a Mk.II /AT-20 then you are going to have to do more than you bargain for.  I did this 2 years ago, R-422.  Fairly briefly you need to remove all the rib details from the mainplanes and tailplanes, these were wooden covered with fabric.  I used resin cowlings cast  from a Frog Oxford and new metal Jacobs engines + kit props and completely new scratch built exhaust system.  You will have to scratchbuild the cylindrical under cowl mesh fronted intakes too.

 

The undercarriage needs rebuilding with two legs so the underside of the nacelle will need extensive surgery to get right.   Tailplanes are the wrong type,  The kit has Mk.20 metal type.   You need extended span, pointed tips and increased sweep on the leading edge.   Rebuild the rudder L/E add correct hinges.   On the fuselage, fill the turret hole then add stringer effect over that area of the fuselage.  Side windows need the diagonal 'frames removing. these are actually internal tube structure, then polishing.  Nose requires complete new glazed tip with flat section underneath + portholes without rivets, this was moulded plywood as was the cabin roof.   The cockpit glazing on my kit was a poor fit and a hash of framing, bits of wartime and postwar.  Took a lot of work to even look 1/2 decent.  You will need to remodel the interior cockpit as this is visible, a frame structure is behind the pilot seat,  I added new floor + navigator stations ans mainspar too.  COLOURS  Built in overall yellow, the USAAF used them as such initially with 1942-43 star on disc markings, I have colour photo. of these.   My/your subject is aluminium dope with black anti-dazzles on nose and inboard top quarters of cowlings and nacelles. I have rear 3/4 view of this a/c.  Cowl colour is debatable,  There was no overall policy on cowl colours for differing training roles, each region had it's own policy.    I painted my cowlings Light Green, which is the same colour as the old USN Willow Green.  Numeral colours are regulated, black fuselage IDs  and white on strong coloured components.  There is a lot of detail stuff I left out   I wouldn't do it again, pray for a MK.II.

[mhaselden]

15 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

Thanks. I am considering that one. I think it's overall silver with red cowlings and yellow cowling numerals.

 

The fuselage national marking appears to have a red surround.  The underwing national marking is more problematic.  Maybe the blue of the star is reflecting and so showing up lighter than the red surround?

[gingerbob]

I noticed that, too.  I'm not so sure about red for the cowlings- could easily be light blue (or any other light color!)  It does look like "silver" overall though.

 

bob

[Space Ranger]

3 hours ago, mhaselden said:

 

The fuselage national marking appears to have a red surround.  The underwing national marking is more problematic.  Maybe the blue of the star is reflecting and so showing up lighter than the red surround?

Or we could be seeing freshly painted blue surrounding faded blue roundels.

[mhaselden]

3 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

Or we could be seeing freshly painted blue surrounding faded blue roundels.

 

That's certainly an alternative, although the fuselage star and bar looks pretty fresh to me. 

[Space Ranger]

3 hours ago, Mike Starmer said:

If you are considering using the Airfix Anson to build a Mk.II /AT-20 then you are going to have to do more than you bargain for.  I did this 2 years ago, R-422.  Fairly briefly you need to remove all the rib details from the mainplanes and tailplanes, these were wooden covered with fabric.  I used resin cowlings cast  from a Frog Oxford and new metal Jacobs engines + kit props and completely new scratch built exhaust system.  You will have to scratchbuild the cylindrical under cowl mesh fronted intakes too.

 

The undercarriage needs rebuilding with two legs so the underside of the nacelle will need extensive surgery to get right.   Tailplanes are the wrong type,  The kit has Mk.20 metal type.   You need extended span, pointed tips and increased sweep on the leading edge.   Rebuild the rudder L/E add correct hinges.   On the fuselage, fill the turret hole then add stringer effect over that area of the fuselage.  Side windows need the diagonal 'frames removing. these are actually internal tube structure, then polishing.  Nose requires complete new glazed tip with flat section underneath + portholes without rivets, this was moulded plywood as was the cabin roof.   The cockpit glazing on my kit was a poor fit and a hash of framing, bits of wartime and postwar.  Took a lot of work to even look 1/2 decent.  You will need to remodel the interior cockpit as this is visible, a frame structure is behind the pilot seat,  I added new floor + navigator stations ans mainspar too.  COLOURS  Built in overall yellow, the USAAF used them as such initially with 1942-43 star on disc markings, I have colour photo. of these.   My/your subject is aluminium dope with black anti-dazzles on nose and inboard top quarters of cowlings and nacelles. I have rear 3/4 view of this a/c.  Cowl colour is debatable,  There was no overall policy on cowl colours for differing training roles, each region had it's own policy.    I painted my cowlings Light Green, which is the same colour as the old USN Willow Green.  Numeral colours are regulated, black fuselage IDs  and white on strong coloured components.  There is a lot of detail stuff I left out   I wouldn't do it again, pray for a MK.II.

I've just ordered a Special Hobby "Anson Mk. I Late." According to kit reviews, this includes additional parts for "other variants." I'm hoping these are suitable for a Mk. II conversion.

 

[RJP]

I’ve had a look at my Anson file and found a few more tidbits.

 

Joe Baugher lists 50 Anson II aircraft taken over as 43-8181 to 43-8230.  43-8223 was previously 7120 in RCAF hands. 

 

It was built by Canadian Car and Foundry at Amherst Nova Scotia and delivered to 3 Training Command in February 1942.  After several months with 9 BGS at Mont Joli PQ it was stored and then recorded as sold to the USAAF in September 1942.  It was delivered (ferried?) to Stockton California before the US serial was marked.

 

I agree it looks like aluminium dope in the picture.  Note in both pictures above the rudder seems to be a different colour.  It could be a deflected rudder but I wonder if it remained the RCAF standard yellow?

 

I had a look at the Special Hobby version in my stash (the Groupe Artois version) and it is a better all-around base kit than the Airfix.  Specifically, the wings on early Ansons were plywood covered and it has none of the Airfix ribs.  And it already has the smooth cowlings.

 

Be aware the Mk II nose was moulded plywood and of different shape than that of the Mk I.  Even though it retained the bomb aimer’s flat window just aft of the tip the nose transparency was a clear perspex dome of more or less elliptical shape and did not have the flat bottom of the Mk I.  I believe (large grain of salt at the ready) that it was carried over to the Mk V.

 

Only a few early Mk II had a similar undercarriage to the Mk I.  After that (including 7120/43-8223) there were paired hydraulic rods in separate openings in the engine nacelle.  A few picture links to illustrate:

 

http://image-bank.techno-science.ca/databases/image_bank/dig_image.cfm?Lang=e&id=6011

 

http://image-bank.techno-science.ca/databases/image_bank/dig_image.cfm?Lang=e&id=KM1954

 

http://image-bank.techno-science.ca/databases/image_bank/dig_image.cfm?Lang=e&id=KM1955

 

http://image-bank.techno-science.ca/databases/image_bank/dig_image.cfm?Lang=e&id=KM1985

 

Be aware that the site still suffers from erratic captioning.  Caveat emptor but the pictures themselves don’t lie.

[Mike Starmer]

On the posted photograph the insignias do have differing outlines.  My pictures were not sharp enough for me to decide red or blue outlines,  I opted for blue.  The rudder is deflected. you can see it's shadow below.  I haven't seen the SH kit but I  doubt it will be comprehensive in parts to make a Mk.II out of it.  Alternative turret and  cowlings perhaps.  Those pictures or the undercarriage are just what I needed back then, but I am delighted to see that I did get it correct.  The subject aircraft was based at  Lemore AFB 1944, all their aircraft carried R- prefixed unit codes.

 

[Space Ranger]

2 hours ago, Mike Starmer said:

On the posted photograph the insignias do have differing outlines.  My pictures were not sharp enough for me to decide red or blue outlines,  I opted for blue.  The rudder is deflected. you can see it's shadow below.  I haven't seen the SH kit but I  doubt it will be comprehensive in parts to make a Mk.II out of it.  Alternative turret and  cowlings perhaps.  Those pictures or the undercarriage are just what I needed back then, but I am delighted to see that I did get it correct.  The subject aircraft was based at  Lemore AFB 1944, all their aircraft carried R- prefixed unit codes.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Clicking on "Reveal hidden contents" revealed nothing. What secrets are you keeping from us? :-)

[Ed Russell]

On 10/12/2017 at 11:20 PM, Space Ranger said:

Much appreciated.

It is a 7 page article by Alan W Hall entitled Avro Anson Mks 11-22 and follows on from a similar article on the Anson I to X in V10 #3.

It has 24 illustrations of which 8 are in colour. There are also 34 B&W profiles. The text covers development, history and use rather than structural changes although some are mentioned.

i would have thought the Aeroclub Anson might be the closest.

There was a conversion article in the Feb 1971 Airfix Magazine for a T.20 which is close.

 

 

[Space Ranger]

6 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

It is a 7 page article by Alan W Hall entitled Avro Anson Mks 11-22 and follows on from a similar article on the Anson I to X in V10 #3.

It has 24 illustrations of which 8 are in colour. There are also 34 B&W profiles. The text covers development, history and use rather than structural changes although some are mentioned.

i would have thought the Aeroclub Anson might be the closest.

There was a conversion article in the Feb 1971 Airfix Magazine for a T.20 which is close.

 

 

Do you have copies of these articles?

[Mike Starmer]

Sorry, the hidden contents came up without any input from me, or not that I know of.

[Ed Russell]

On 10/17/2017 at 11:45 PM, Space Ranger said:

Do you have copies of these articles?

I can copy the SAM article and with a bit of luck, find the Airfix T.20 article too.

 

Update - The Feb 1971 Airfix Magazine has a quite nice conversion to a T.20 by Alan W Hall. The catch is that he used an Airmodel vacform C.19 fuselage conversion kit. Good luck finding one of those!