Dawn Patrol

[RAS]

IMG_7829a by Ray Staley, on Flickr

[Beardie]

That is a very nice photo. Why does the tripe nearest us appear to have red as the outer colour of the cockade though?

[RAS]

Well spotted - cos its a French machine. Good job the others (Revell 1/72 and Eduard 1/48) cannot be seen as they are RNAS machines!!

 

[Beardie]

Hmmm but if it is a French machine are the fin stripes not the wrong way around? I can't see them clearly but it looks like Blue for'ard to red stern rather than t'other way around? That is what made me think there was something odd going on with the picture.

[RAS]

That's what comes when you muck up the RNAS decals after you paint the fin!!

 

[Beardie]

Ah well that explains it

[Gorby]

Very atmospheric photo. Excellent modelling and excellent photography, you've got the lighting spot on.

The only things that I can think of that would improve it, is if the base looked more like grass, and there wasn't a shadow of the aircraft on the background.

[RAS]

Thanks - took the picture when waiting in for DHL . Will try another with a better set up.

 

[Beardie]

Other than the realism aspect (no grass and shadows where there shouldn't be) it is indeed a very atmospheric photo. A pilot or two, and a mechanic or two and it would have the real feel of a dawn patrol preparing.

[stevehed]

Pardon my ignorance but I thought French and British aircraft sported blue/ white and red trailing edge fin stripes throughout WW1. Did not the change occur during the 1930's.

 

Regards, Steve

[Beardie]

The fin stripes were red white blue front to rear on French(and American) machines and Blue White Red F to R on British machines corresponding to the order of colours in the cockades.

[Black Knight]

RFC/RNAS/RAF WW1 rudder stripes were blue leading, white, red at the trailing edge

The order of the colours was reversed in late 1930, they were removed in 1934

French rudder stripes were in the same order, just the shades differed

* the reversal of the order in 1930 was so that the order of stripes was different to that used by the French

 

Officially the USAS was white leading, blue and red at the trailing edge but higher authority decided the stripes would be the same as the French

 

BTW; the first wing roundel style used by the RNAS was a red circle with a white centre, no blue used.

The RNAS were the main user of the Sopwith Triplane

[Beardie]

You are absolutely right Black Knight and I have not been paying enough attention in my aircraft insignia classes. Now that I go back and actually look, French aircraft do bear the tail stripes in the same order as RFC machines. I can only claim that I made the assumption that the tail stripes would have the same reversal as the cockades.

 

Looking at the schemes for the tripe in the Wingnut Wings profiles though they have the stripes in the opposite order. I guess this is either a mistake by Wingnuts or an error by whoever painted the original machine.

 

Hmmm..... I see that Pheon also give R/W/B as the order for the tails on their sheet of French tripes and glancing at photos of some French tripes, they also appear to be painted in that order. The plot thickens.

[Black Knight]

Often artists assume the present order of RAF stripes was the same in WW1 and draw accordingly. Many model companies employ these artists to draw up the kit schemes

 

Are the photos of French triplanes in B&W or have they been colourised? Although colour photography had been around since the late 1880s its extremely rare to see a true colour WW1 photo. They are usually hand coloured at the time or modern computer colourised. I have seen hand coloured photo postcards of both British and French aeroplanes with the wrong colours applied to the roundels and tail stripes

 

BTW; RNAS usually, but not always, but as far as I know on all Sopwith Triplanes, had the three stripes painted on the elevators as well. This is often over-looked in model schemes

[Beardie]

They are the original B&W photos. The tone of the stripes match with the tones of the fuselage cockades so, assuming that the cockade is red outer ring and blue centre then it would be fair to assume that the leading edge of the rudder is red also.

[Black Knight]

or vicey versa.

Did the stripes have the maker/type/number written across them?

Just goes to show that there are always exceptions to the rules or the nomal

 

PS; could they have been French types in later Italian markings? The late Italian marking was green/white/red centre roundel with a green leading/white/red [afair] stripe on rudder

Italy used a lot of aeroplanes bought from France and French machines British-built, eg Spad VII & XIII and Hanriot

 

PS; We've hijacked this thread. Very bad of us

[AWFK10]

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

BTW; RNAS usually, but not always, but as far as I know on all Sopwith Triplanes, had the three stripes painted on the elevators as well. This is often over-looked in model schemes

I think that was peculiar to Beardmore-built aircraft, principally Pups - they didn't build any Triplanes.

[Badder]

Dawn Patrol, By Megadeth, from the album Rust in Peace? 

 

Ah. None of the photos or comments were visible when I first clicked on this topic. Now I see.

Very atmospheric photos. I couldn't comment on the markings as I know nothing about things with wings.

 

Badder

Edited October 6, 2017 by Badder

[Beardie]

Black Knight, no these are definitely in French hands. There were 17 machines operated by the Aeronautique Navale. The Sopwith Tripe was not used at all by the Italians. I think that, besides the French only two other machines were operated by any service other than the RNAS. One aircraft was used by the Greeks and one served with Imperial Russia and then the Soviet Union.