airscale Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 18 hours ago, dave665 said: Even bigger question... Will the wings be foldable? Dave Evening all No, the wings won't be folded, it will just be as a parked aircraft would look - canopies open but thats about it I have scrapped the lego idea as even if I had used it I was concerned about the rigidity and while I make brass U/C so weight is not a major issue, it did seem a lot of hassle and maybe not the best way the worst danger point is below the observers cockpit, there is not too much fuselage so flexing would be a problem. I decided to go fully agricultural on it and JB Welded a big length of hexagonal pbrass stock I bought when I bought my lathe - it is way too big for the scales I work in so it was sacrificed to add a good rigid structure along the fuselage length.. before that though I had to think about wing fixings - I had great success with my F7F using square brass tube so I looked up in the manual and found the dihedral to be 3 degrees 3 minutes - I got an online protractor and set out the angle & printed it so I could bend the mounts to the right angle - I have no tools for this so it was done by eye clamped to a fireplace! The sliding tubes that will be set in the wing are also used so you get a good view of the entire angle created.. ..then it was some heath robinson lash up on my bench to get the angle right in the fuselage... ..I did use some lego around the spars to add strength and the whole area is washed with CA so likely the wings break before the joints do.. ..it is starting to take shape - the key here is strength & dimensional accuracy.. ..also been using printouts of the PE to make sure that it fits the model when it arrives.. I think I might skin it and fill with foam, or maybe balsa & skin not sure yet.. making this up as I go along TTFN Peter 17 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Peter! I had written a response earlier today to suggest using a metal spar embedded inside of the keel but deleted it and decided not to share. Lo and behold! You did it!! This is the approach I want to do on my project. Looking AWESOME!!! PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britman Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Would an increase in skin gauge through the observers section with slots for the the formers be beneficial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 woohoo! the postman just arrived the folks at PPD are just brilliant - 3 days after ordering I have the PE... ..and I have LOTS of sanding in my future today ..back later.. TTFN Peter 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cngaero Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 That Photo Etch looks beautiful Peter. Great work with the fuselage so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Noè I know your secret... LEGO BRICKS!!! Those PE are really spot on!!! And the fuselage us taking shape really fast!!! Better than a good book! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 A far sight less expensive start than your last, Peter! Three different build-up techniques represented between your Firecat, Spitfire and Firefly. All with excellent results! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom216 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 A year, you say!? Looks like you'll be done for the new year!! Great progress. Loved the Spit, and this is looking just as great. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 That PE looks amazing Peter - looking forward to seeing it come together. I'm still looking at the fuselage and thinking 'Um, er' but I know you'll apply your usual magic and all will become clear! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I've found the Target winch drawing (ML Aviation 1947). However it's faded and large and so to reduce it to a point where I can scan it I'm having to ink in some of the dimensions and radii. There are 20 sections in something a little over 7' long. I've found some of my winch photos and some are eluding me. This is the Mosquito fit which is the very similar to the Firefly fit. I notice that you are filling in with loads of thick strips of plastic and Lego. My suggestion would be to cut strips of thin card (20 thou) to the width between the former's and of a suitable length to allow them to be curved into an arch of a rough shape to mimic the former shape but be just shy of the edge of the former's to allow for the P.38 skin. Once glued into place they would form an inner carapace which would be enormously strong yet light. I'll sketch it if my words don't paint the picture correctly. John 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 How the heck have I overlooked this?! I will watch with awe (again). Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJP Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Really like the way you've got the fuselage coming together so quickly - I see the Lego blocks utilised where the square brass tubes intersect & wonder if soldering the joins where they cross would have been an option to add strength? CJP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Um, er... can I recap please? Tuesday at 20:45 "I intend to add thick card formers and fill in between with balsa block." Wednesday at 23:06 "Lego :)... it will make it super rigid, it is plastic, and all I need to do is contour the surface with P40 automotive filler" Thursday at 21:18 "I have scrapped the lego idea… I think I might skin it and fill with foam, or maybe balsa & skin not sure yet.. making this up as I go along" Yesterday: What's the stuff between the formers Peter? It looks as though it'll be super strong but a bit bumpy? Sorry if I'm being thick... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I can't believe that the fuselage is coming together so quickly either. What about the day job? John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthemodeller Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Oops, newly missed the starting another epic build. Wasn't expecting it quite so soon... As usual, I'll just sit quietly at the back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 21 hours ago, John Aero said: I've found the Target winch drawing (ML Aviation 1947). However it's faded and large and so to reduce it to a point where I can scan it I'm having to ink in some of the dimensions and radii. There are 20 sections in something a little over 7' long. I've found some of my winch photos and some are eluding me. This is the Mosquito fit which is the very similar to the Firefly fit. I notice that you are filling in with loads of thick strips of plastic and Lego. My suggestion would be to cut strips of thin card (20 thou) to the width between the former's and of a suitable length to allow them to be curved into an arch of a rough shape to mimic the former shape but be just shy of the edge of the former's to allow for the P.38 skin. Once glued into place they would form an inner carapace which would be enormously strong yet light. I'll sketch it if my words don't paint the picture correctly. John Thanks John - really appreciate it i can see that winch being a model in itself, and at 1/18 is probably the same size as a 1/72 Me163! so, I spent hours sanding, filing and generally shaping the fuselage - one lesson I learned the hard way is I should have been much more precise about getting all thise infil strips flush with the outside of the former. I just thought my home DIY sander would rip through it and so was very casual about how much stuck out & would need removing. That was a mistake - it took AGES to sand it all down, and then even longer to file them all flat so there was no bowing between formers. I just kept filing until the black lines on the former edges started to wear away then I knew I had the shape... ..I also could not make sense of the nose shapes so filled it with P38... ..its not clear to see here, but the formers that define the chin intake must be slightly off as the side cowl panels tuck in a bit in keeping with the spinner profile so now I can see what the shape is and it is solid with filler, I can have a go at getting the shape right... also cut out the sub formers that the PE bulkheads will mount to - put some rough holes in these where there are also holes in the PE... ..and the front one fitted - I will also use these to define where the skin should be and can refine the fuselage shape to meet them.. ..starting to take shape.. thats it for now... TTFN Peter 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Ah, I can see now! Infill formers and then filled with filler, got it. Shaping up nicely Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave665 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Gosh... things are moving on at a pace Peter! Fuselage is looking good. But all that PE looks fabulous. On 15/10/2017 at 19:19, airscale said: I also could not make sense of the nose shapes so filled it with P38 Peter you may find photos of Firefly WB271 such as this, may help you visualise that nose shape. There are several where the lighting shows up the subtle contours. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cngaero Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 53 minutes ago, dave665 said: Gosh... things are moving on at a pace Peter! Fuselage is looking good. But all that PE looks fabulous. Peter you may find photos of Firefly WB271 such as this, may help you visualise that nose shape. There are several where the lighting shows up the subtle contours. What a gorgeous photograph Dave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 8:05 PM, dave665 said: Gosh... things are moving on at a pace Peter! Fuselage is looking good. But all that PE looks fabulous. Peter you may find photos of Firefly WB271 such as this, may help you visualise that nose shape. There are several where the lighting shows up the subtle contours. evening folks & thanks Dave, that is indeed a very useful shot so, a few steps forward in recent days... starting the skinning process - first a rough panel in plastic card..made by taking one straight edge and matching it to the airframe, then marking & cutting to get the rough shape involved as they are generally curved and fortunately only curving in one direction I can get away with just heat shaping the panel over a boiling kettle - I tape it so it is in the loose shape I want, hold it over the kettle's steam and then pop in the freezer for a minute or two.. ..this forces the plastic molecules to move & reset to a new shape... .. I then put liquid cement over all the stringers on the fuselage and spot CA'd the panels into position - it wasn't too neat so a bit of P38 filler evens out the form..... ..the engine cowling is proving tricky - the 'double bubble' of the big air scoop under the cowling just could not be done in one go, so I decided to shape the top part, which is very Spitfire like, so that it curves down and inwards at the lower parts where it intersects with the air scoop.. ..also the bit of fuselage directly under the spinner needs making & skinning so it would be easier to do this if there were no air scoop yet.. ..then I will probably add a plunge moulded part for the lower element... ..also the 'ear' air intakes on the top of the cowl were not as per the plan or formers I made, so quite a bit of shaping & reshaping has gone on up to now & I am still not quite happy with it.. ..then shot some high build primer to unify the surface and see whats what.. coming together... while I am here, and I hope this is allowed - if anyone has the Firefly from the Cockpit book seen here that doesn't want silly money for it, please PM me - an old ebay listing has it for £10, today its £70 + £30 postage! TTFN Peter 18 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 From stovetop to the freezer! Excellent!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJP Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Peter you are clearly enjoying this build judging by the speed it is coming together - looking strong and neat CJP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJJunis Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Looking good Peter! All the Best! Don 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave665 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Suddenly out of an assortment of plastic pieces and brass rod a Firefly appears. Impressive speed and quality so far Peter. In a bid to get an idea of the size of the fuselage I looked at the drawings you found Peter. I came up with just over 65cm nose to tail, if I read them correctly. But this has confused me as this is roughly 38' 9" at full size. The references I have (and others on the web) give the Firefly Mk 5 length as 37' 11" and wingspan of 41' 2". This wingspan matches the drawing and everything else looks right. So why the difference in the length? All I can come up with is the shorter length is the airframe's footprint on the ground. Can anyone resolve my confusion? But at 65cm long and 70cm wide this will be some model Peter. Especially with a 22cm propeller on the front! (If the 13ft diameter is correct.) Dave Edited October 18, 2017 by dave665 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossington 2 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Best I can find on that book here: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bi=0&bx=off&cm_sp=SearchF-_-Advtab1-_-Results&ds=30&kn=from+the+cockpit&recentlyadded=all&sortby=17&sts=t&tn=firefly I can't remember if I own a copy or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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