Is this Typhoon scheme legit?

[SeaVenom]

A few years back I painted my Hasegawa Typhoon in this scheme..........

 

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/463/pics/9_17.jpg

 

but I can't find any old photo's of this aircraft painted exactly like that with the complete wraparound D DAY markings on the wings and fuselage.   I can find photo's of ZYY but it doesn't have the complete wraparound markings and has a red 4 blade spinner instead of the sky 3 blade on mine.

Edited September 29, 2017 by SeaVenom

[Black Knight]

Trust the photo, never an artwork

[SeaVenom]

Just now, Black Knight said:

Trust the photo, never an artwork

 

 

This is the problem.   I did this years ago before I had access to the web.   I got the scheme from British Aircraft of WW2 by David Mondey.   In the book it says it's from 247 sqn Colombes France June 1944.

[Panzer Vor!!!]

If you like the scheme then go ahead ---------modelling is about having fun and relaxing after all 

[SeaVenom]

Not sure if it's relaxing  but somebody else has done it the same as mine anyway..........

 

https://intscalemodeller.com/viewtopic.php?t=4138&start=30

[SeaVenom]

Italeri seem to think it's genuine too ........

 

https://www.squadron.com/1-48-Italeri-Hawker-Typhoon-MK-Ib-Late-IT2734-p/it2734.htm

 

mind you as we all know kit companies can get it wrong also.

[Troy Smith]

this is a @Chris Thomas   question.   the  @ should give him a notification.

 

1 hour ago, SeaVenom said:

Italeri seem to think it's genuine too .......

 

and see my sig line.....(and Italeri make howlers on a regular basis)    there have been a few profiles that are so old they have become 'fact'   but when questioned no photos have surfaced, see the Kuttlewasher 'Night reaper'  thread for example.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234976286-hurricane-mk-iic-flown-by-km-kuttlewascher/

There maybe photos,  but if you want a documented scheme, then you need decent photos.

 

 

[Charlie Hugo]

Don't know if this helps

No sky spinner though

 

https://www.facebook.com/worldwarincolor/photos/a.393169424146189.1073741828.393166910813107/1348886321907823/?type=3&theater

[stevehnz]

Logic says the scheme is appropriate for the time, but without knowing more of the individual serial no. it's maybe impossible to Be sure.
Steve.

[Harry Lime]

3 hours ago, Charlie Hugo said:

Don't know if this helps

No sky spinner though

 

https://www.facebook.com/worldwarincolor/photos/a.393169424146189.1073741828.393166910813107/1348886321907823/?type=3&theater

That image is a modern colourised version of an original black and white image. Almost as unreliable as profiles without photos in my opinion!

 

Mark.

[noelh]

In the Airfix model world magazine supplement for the Airfix 1/24 there is a picture of three 247 Squadron aircraft. The nearest of which could be ZY-Y or V but in any case all three have sky spinners and three bladed propellers. The four bladed propellers were prioritised to 'bombphoons'. The Airfix kit features ZY-N in that scheme before the spinners were painted red in September 1944. In the Airfix magazine supplement it's depicted after the addition of a red spinner. In the kit it's depicted with a sky spinner.

 

It seems to me there are two ZY-Y's. The later MP126 with a four bladed propeller as flown by 'Stapme' Stapleton as depicted in the Airfix 1/72 kit and an earlier Y depicted in the Italeri kit and drawing with an unknown serial (to me) which starts with an M and ends in a 3. This one has the wrap around stripes and three bladed propeller. 

 

Now there has to be a photo around somewhere of the early ZY-Y otherwise where did anyone get the details?

 

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by noelh

[Chris Thomas]

1 hour ago, noelh said:

In the Airfix model world magazine supplement for the Airfix 1/24 there is a picture of three 247 Squadron aircraft. The nearest of which could be ZY-Y or V but in any case all three have sky spinners and three bladed propellers. The four bladed propellers were prioritised to 'bombphoons'. The Airfix kit features ZY-N in that scheme before the spinners were painted red in September 1944. In the Airfix magazine supplement it's depicted after the addition of a red spinner. In the kit it's depicted with a sky spinner.

 

It seems to me there are two ZY-Y's. The later MP126 with a four bladed propeller as flown by 'Stapme' Stapleton as depicted in the Airfix 1/72 kit and an earlier Y depicted in the Italeri kit and drawing with an unknown serial (to me) which starts with an M and ends in a 3. This one has the wrap around stripes and three bladed propeller. 

 

Now there has to be a photo around somewhere of the early ZY-Y otherwise where did anyone get the details?

 

 

 

Briefly, there at least 8 Typhoons marked ZY-Y.  The ZY-Y on D-Day was indeed MN363, which had been with 247 Sqn at Hurn since April 1944; it was damaged on 8 June (so it never got to Coulombs) and went to Marshall of Cambridge for repair, which is probably where M.J.F.Bowyer probably recorded it and its markings (in AFM or Fighting colours if I remember). 

 

The profile by W.J.A.'Tony' Wood first appeared in Air International in June 1976.  I believe Tony based his painting on MJFB's description. No photo has ever come to light. Contrary to Noelh's expectations photos of fully striped aircraft are quite rare, particularly Typhoons. They were rather busy at the time and security was tight.  I have a particular interest in 247 Sqn and helped David Marchant locate photos for his Air-Britain history of the unit. Despite attending several reunions and corresponding extensively with vets, little came to light from that period (except that shot mentioned above in the Airfix mag supplement and those aircraft were 1/2 striped).  

 

As for the profile, it does look reasonably authentic. The only point to quibble with is that the only two photos of the RP Wing at Hurn with full stripes shows them with rectangular spaces left for the codes, not stripes applied right up to the letters. But that was just 2 aircraft out of about 60.  The other thing that could vary was where the fuselage stripes were positioned. They should have been applied starting at the leading edge of the Sky band but sometimes they overlapped. If you are still keen on MN363 it was a 3-blader with the larger (Tempest) tailplane.

 

The only 247 Sqn fully-striped photo features ZY-B MN317 and was one of the decal options in the original Hasegawa release. I won't bore you with details unless anyone requires them.

CT

[JPuente54]

OTOH, there is no photo to prove you wrong; if you choose to use this scheme. Of course, it will appear after you build it like this. I believe that it is a law, or something like that. I go with Panzer Vor; build it like that, and, enjoy it!

[Panzer Vor!!!]

Do you show your models at shows?

Enter comps ??

Think how many people looking at your model will know about the scheme ??

Build it

It's your model no one  else s

[SeaVenom]

Thanks all.  So basically as is often the case things aren't so clear cut.

 

I was originally going to use the kits decal option Chris and do ZYB  but then I saw the illustration of ZYY and liked it because it didn't have the rectangular space for the codes.   I just thought it looked neater without the rectangular bit.

 

I'll probably leave it as it is though.    

 

One other question........Is the Hasegawa spinner the correct shape for the teardrop Typhoon?    In the photo's I've seen the spinner Hasegawa's included looks shorter and stubbier than most of the teardrop Typhoon spinners I've seen.  They look longer and thinner.   To me the Hasegawa spinner looks like it's one from a car door Typhoon.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by SeaVenom

[Troy Smith]

38 minutes ago, SeaVenom said:

.Is the Hasegawa spinner the correct shape for the teardrop Typhoon?    In the photo's I've seen the spinner Hasegawa's included looks shorter and stubbier than most of the teardrop Typhoon spinners I've seen.  They look longer and thinner.   To me the Hasegawa spinner looks like it's one from a car door Typhoon

 

read  this

 

 

[SeaVenom]

On 9/30/2017 at 3:34 AM, Troy Smith said:

 

read  this

 

 

 

 

Cheers for that.    I'll have to read that a few times to take it all in.   What a bunch of bozo's that Photobucket are though.   The amount of threads that have been spoiled by them and their money grabbing antics is ridiculous.

Edited October 4, 2017 by SeaVenom

[Chris Thomas]

On 30/09/2017 at 3:34 AM, Troy Smith said:

 

read  this

 

 

All I can add to the above thread is that I had a lengthy discussion with Arthur Bentley re the variation in De Havilland spinners on Typhoons. We came to the conclusion that it could be due to different sub-contractors or just the manufacturing process, a significant part of which was accomplished by hand.

 

Anyone who doubts there were variations should view, if they have a copy available, Ron Pottinger's 'A View From the Office' p.115 where two photos of Typhoons at the top of the page, taken from similar angles, show obvious differences.

CT