Blenheims Mk I variety

[Michael51]

Is there evidence of Mk I Blenheims (not the IF variety) ever being used in air strikes as bombers in their own right, either with the AASF or with Bomber Command?

 

Michael

 

 

[gingerbob]

I thought that the Mk.Is had been replaced by IVs in the relevant squadrons for the Battle of France.

[Graham Boak]

I believe that is true of the AASF, but I don't know whether this was true of the entire bomber force available during the Battle of Britain, and hence used against the Channel ports.  However given that the retiring AASF bomber units were re-equipped with Mk.IVs, I suspect that any Mk.Is would have been few,

[Michael51]

Thank you for your replies.

 

It remains unclear in the resources on my bookshelf. If there is a written source on this question, I am yet to find it.

 

Michael

[JWM]

 

3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I believe that is true of the AASF, but I don't know whether this was true of the entire bomber force available during the Battle of Britain, and hence used against the Channel ports.  However given that the retiring AASF bomber units were re-equipped with Mk.IVs, I suspect that any Mk.Is would have been few,

How it was with Mk I in Far East? I think they were in fist line in Singapore '41...

[vppelt68]

The RAF used them in Crete too if I recall correctly.

[Michael51]

37 minutes ago, JWM said:

 

How it was with Mk I in Far East? I think they were in fist line in Singapore '41...

Just like on the Airfix box art for the Mk 1, whence originated my query.

 

Michael

[Graham Boak]

I read the question as being specific to the AASF and Bomber Command, as stated.  Yes, there are many examples of Mk.I Blenheims being used operationally overseas, certainly into 1941 and just edging into 1942.  North Africa, Greece, Iraq, East Africa, and Singapore.  A few survivors made it to Sumatra/Java.  By this stage all replacements were Mk.IVs, and these had already begun to replace the Mk.Is in Singapore before the Japanese invasion.

 

Not to mention Finland, Yugoslavia and Romania, the first and last of these still using Mk.Is well into 1942 and beyond.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Graham Boak

[brewerjerry]

Hi

   Warners blenheim book lists a few operations losses in france of

 Mk I bombers in may 40, 

 

non operational Mk I losses start july 40

 

'bombing colours' bowyer may have some info, but i cant locate my copy.

 

   cheers

      jerry

Edited September 24, 2017 by brewerjerry

[Michael51]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I read the question as being specific to the AASF and Bomber Command, as stated.  Yes, there are many examples of Mk.I Blenheims being used operationally overseas, certainly into 1941 and just edging into 1942.  North Africa, Greece, Iraq, East Africa, and Singapore.  A few survivors made it to Sumatra/Java.  By this stage all replacements were Mk.IVs, and these had already begun to replace the Mk.Is in Singapore before the Japanese invasion.

 

Not to mention Finland, Yugoslavia and Romania, the first and last of these still using Mk.Is well into 1942 and beyond.

Graham,

 

No problem. You read the inquiry I posted as it was written, specifically referring to the AASF and RAF Bomber Command,

 

 

Michael

[DennisTheBear]

Just found a blog (The Java Gold's Blog) which shows a suppliment to the London Gazette of 1948 indicating that as of 22 November 1941at least 39 servicable Blemheim I aircraft were available in Malaya/Singapore. It lists only 1 squadron flying the Blenheim IV.

 

DennisTheBear

Edited September 25, 2017 by DennisTheBear
Clarity

[Graham Boak]

Peter Cornwell's "The Battle of France Then and Now" lists 2 Blenheim Mk.Is as lost in France in 1939, one a flying accident and the other running out of fuel being lost after a reconnaissance mission - a useful reminder that not all combat missions were fighter or bomber missions.  However, Graham Warner's "The Bristol Blenheim A Complete History" (as mentioned above) has several more lost on similar recce missions plus one loss (L4856 of 59 Sq) on 11th May damaged by light AA therefore presumably on a bombing mission not a comparatively high-level recce, and later abandoned after a forced landing at Vitry on one engine.  Apart from the fighters, he gives no further losses of Mk.Is in combat in Western Europe.  Which may not mean that no other missions were flown by Mk.Is, but any in France must have been lucky to survive, and any from the UK in the later period lucky not to have been finally replaced by the Mk.IV.

 

So although most if not all sources refer only to Mk.IV squadrons being sent to France, it seems that a number of Mk.Is seem to have been retained on strength with these units, and not just as squadron hacks.

 

PS  From a modeller's point of view, it would be interesting to know how many of these Mk.Is gained Sky undersides?

 

PPS  Cornwell does have more Mk.I losses in France - my eyes had jumped across one complete column (not all Mk.Is, I believe)

Edited September 25, 2017 by Graham Boak

[Michael51]

18 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

   Warners blenheim book lists a few operations losses in france of

 Mk I bombers in may 40, 

 

non operational Mk I losses start july 40

 

'bombing colours' bowyer may have some info, but i cant locate my copy.

 

   cheers

      jerry

Jerry,

 

Thanks.

 

Exactly the book I do not have. Will try to remedy that!

 

Michael

[Michael51]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Peter Cornwell's "The Battle of France Then and Now" lists 2 Blenheim Mk.Is as lost in France in 1939, one a flying accident and the other running out of fuel being lost after a reconnaissance mission - a useful reminder that not all combat missions were fighter or bomber missions.  However, Graham Warner's "The Bristol Blenheim A Complete History" (as mentioned above) has several more lost on similar recce missions plus one loss (L4856 of 59 Sq) on 11th May damaged by light AA therefore presumably on a bombing mission not a comparatively high-level recce, and later abandoned after a forced landing at Vitry on one engine.  Apart from the fighters, he gives no further losses of Mk.Is in combat in Western Europe.  Which may not mean that no other missions were flown by Mk.Is, but any in France must have been lucky to survive, and any from the UK in the later period lucky not to have been finally replaced by the Mk.IV.

 

So although most if not all sources refer only to Mk.IV squadrons being sent to France, it seems that a number of Mk.Is seem to have been retained on strength with these units, and not just as squadron hacks.

 

PS  From a modeller's point of view, it would be interesting to know how many of these Mk.Is gained Sky undersides?

 

PPS  Cornwell does have more Mk.I losses in France - my eyes had jumped across one complete column (not all Mk.Is, I believe)

Graham,

 

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply. Another book I need to get!

 

Michael

[AWFK10]

3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

So although most if not all sources refer only to Mk.IV squadrons being sent to France, it seems that a number of Mk.Is seem to have been retained on strength with these units, and not just as squadron hacks.

 

 

Michael Bowyer said in his "Army-Air Colours 1937-45" series in Airfix Magazine (Feb 1976) that 18 and 57 Sqns deployed to France in September 1939 with Mk Is, which were replaced by Mk IVs in March 1940. These were tactical reconnaissance, rather than bomber squadrons, and Warner lists 12 of their Mk Is lost on operations, the last on 25 Feb 40. From 11 April, their losses were Mk IVs, with the exception of 18 Sqn's L1405, "shot down near German border" on 10 May.

 

59 Sqn reformed in Jan 37 with Hectors to (Bowyer) "operate for the Army in a night reconnaissance role using flares": he states it converted to the Blenheim IV between March and June 1939, undertaking "strategic reconnaissance patrols for Army GHQ over areas well behind the Siegfried Line" (he suggests its first night sortie, to the Cologne area, was on 1 Apr 40). However, despite his specifying Mk IVs, the L File shows Mk Is L4855 - L4863 all serving with this unit, three being passed on to 57 Sqn. Of the others, according to this source, L4856 was "damaged in a taxying accident and probably abandoned in France, 5/40". L4859 is "presumed lost in France, 5/40" and, interestingly, L4857 was passed to 17 OTU but returned to 59 Sqn where it "crashed on overshoot on night navex, Poix, 4.5.40".

[Graham Boak]

It seems as though 18 Sq was caught in the middle of converting (as was 615 Sq Gladiators to Hurricanes) as all their subsequent losses are Mk.IVs.

 

In France, the Blenheim units were allocated to the reconnaissance role, with the Battles as the bomber units.  Which suggests that L4856 was also on a recce mission rather than my suggestion above.  Given the respective dates of publication, I suggest that Cornwell's account is probably the more accurate, but they agree about the "lost in France".  I see no need to compare the losses in both books for differences, let others do that if they have the interest.

[Michael51]

6 hours ago, AWFK10 said:

Michael Bowyer said in his "Army-Air Colours 1937-45" series in Airfix Magazine (Feb 1976) that 18 and 57 Sqns deployed to France in September 1939 with Mk Is, which were replaced by Mk IVs in March 1940. These were tactical reconnaissance, rather than bomber squadrons, and Warner lists 12 of their Mk Is lost on operations, the last on 25 Feb 40. From 11 April, their losses were Mk IVs, with the exception of 18 Sqn's L1405, "shot down near German border" on 10 May.

 

59 Sqn reformed in Jan 37 with Hectors to (Bowyer) "operate for the Army in a night reconnaissance role using flares": he states it converted to the Blenheim IV between March and June 1939, undertaking "strategic reconnaissance patrols for Army GHQ over areas well behind the Siegfried Line" (he suggests its first night sortie, to the Cologne area, was on 1 Apr 40). However, despite his specifying Mk IVs, the L File shows Mk Is L4855 - L4863 all serving with this unit, three being passed on to 57 Sqn. Of the others, according to this source, L4856 was "damaged in a taxying accident and probably abandoned in France, 5/40". L4859 is "presumed lost in France, 5/40" and, interestingly, L4857 was passed to 17 OTU but returned to 59 Sqn where it "crashed on overshoot on night navex, Poix, 4.5.40".

Many thanks for this helpful information,

 

Michael